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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 25 Feb, 2006 09:21 am
ros-

I was giving you a brief swipe at a fast lesson in economics.And subjective legal yardsticks.

It was your idea man!
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Sat 25 Feb, 2006 12:13 pm
spendius wrote:
ros-

I was giving you a brief swipe at a fast lesson in economics.And subjective legal yardsticks.


Oh, ok. It just seemed like a fast lesson in your personal delusions and paranoia. My mistake Smile
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spendius
 
  1  
Sat 25 Feb, 2006 12:23 pm
What are the symptoms of this 'ere paranoia thing.I'm always hearing about it from folk who seem a bit obsessed with it.I could check myself out if I knew that.

Are delusions a sign of getting better or getting worse?Maybe they are caused by my reading things until I understand them and failing to underestimate ny sources.

Stay on the sidelines if you want ros.It's no skin off my nose.

Are they anything to do with my not having a life like Mr Apisa says I should have.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Sat 25 Feb, 2006 02:10 pm
spendius wrote:
What are the symptoms of this 'ere paranoia thing.I'm always hearing about it from folk who seem a bit obsessed with it.I could check myself out if I knew that.


The ones who have it are the last to know Smile But don't let that make you paranoid or anything.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 25 Feb, 2006 03:03 pm
ros-

Do you mean that the people who go to psychologists and psychiatrists and counsellors and take drugs for mental problems like depression and insomnia and have psychosomatic ailments and who join strange culty type organisations and all that type of thing are all perfectly normal and sane and I'm a complete deluded paranoic who hasn't been sorted out yet because I'm not aware of any need in those respects?

I suppose that's what you must mean really.Do you think I ought to seek expert advice.I don't like the idea of being the last to know I'm nuts because I fear people might start avoiding me in that case without my knowing the reason and thus being unable to do anything about it?
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Sat 25 Feb, 2006 04:29 pm
Quote:
Broward selects biology text with watered-down passages on evolution
(By Chris Kahn, South Florida Sun-Sentinel, February 24, 2006)

High school biology students in Broward County will use a textbook next year that watered-down passages about Charles Darwin and evolution theory.

Science teachers picked Florida Holt Biology this month in a countywide vote, favoring it over another book that discussed the controversial idea of intelligent design.

The Holt textbook stays away from intelligent design, the idea that a god or other guiding force caused the development of life on Earth. Mainstream scientists have discredited the theory as a repackaged form of old-school creationism.

But publisher Holt, Rinehart and Winston did edit several sections at the request of the Discovery Institute, a Seattle think tank that has peddled intelligent design around the country for years.

The changes were "kind of a merging of philosophies to get something that everyone was satisfied with," said Broward science curriculum supervisor J.P. Keener.

"What came out in the book was scientifically correct," Keener said. "That's the bottom line."

A review by the South Florida Sun-Sentinel found that on one edited page, Holt agreed to give Darwin less credit for shaping modern biology. In another section it inserted descriptions that conservative Christians believe challenge evolution theory.

Previous editions of the textbook said Darwin's theory "is the essence of biology."

In the Broward edition, students will read instead that Darwin's theory "provides a consistent explanation for life's diversity."

The county plans to spend $1.2 million for 20,000 copies of the book. It will be required reading in Biology I classes until 2013.

"We're very pleased," said Rick Blake, spokesman in Chicago for Holt, Rinehart and Winston. "Science is a very strong area for Holt."
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spendius
 
  1  
Sat 25 Feb, 2006 06:05 pm
wande quoted-

Quote:
The changes were "kind of a merging of philosophies to get something that everyone was satisfied with," said Broward science curriculum supervisor J.P. Keener.

"What came out in the book was scientifically correct," Keener said. "That's the bottom line."


Not everybody has lost it then?
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spendius
 
  1  
Sat 25 Feb, 2006 06:07 pm
wande also quoted-

Quote:
The county plans to spend $1.2 million for 20,000 copies of the book. It will be required reading in Biology I classes until 2013.


Which is not quite the same as saying it will be "read".
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Sat 25 Feb, 2006 10:20 pm
wandeljw wrote:
Quote:
The county plans to spend $1.2 million for 20,000 copies of the book.


That's $60 per book. And I assume someone negotiated a quantity discount with an order of 20,000. Right?

Those must be REALLY nice books. Confused
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raprap
 
  1  
Sun 26 Feb, 2006 12:23 am
School book bindings are expensive--they have to take an amazing amount of abuse even if they are never read.

Rap
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spendius
 
  1  
Sun 26 Feb, 2006 06:47 am
Broward County US represents 1.6% of US population.If the above is a typical situation then Biology 1 classes require,nationwide,$200 million of book purchases.

That's a lot of moolah.Books,like newspapers,are wood pulp with ink stains plus human business action often,though possibly not always,clothed in tailored idealisms of one sort or another.

I'm inclined to think that some of the anti-ID posts on this thread have been a trifle naive.The idea that the business mind cares two hoots for anything other than a fast,easy profit is laughable.
And "Have Gavel-Will Travel" is pretty bloody cynical to put it at its prettiest.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Sun 26 Feb, 2006 08:15 am
Quote:
Scientific study requires sound methodology
(Sherri Byrand, Sheboygan Press, February 26, 2006)

Two weeks ago I read a bold, but inaccurate, statement in another column that appears in The Sheboygan Press. On Feb. 12, Charyl Zehfus wrote, "evolution depends on abiogenesis, which means 'life arising from non-life,' to explain the origin of life. Since abiogenesis has never been proven, it requires belief, just like a religion."


Evolution (or evolutionary biology or the theory of evolution) does not "depend" on abiogenesis. The two are completely separate processes, because evolution does not examine the origin of life, but is about how life unfolds according to genetic mutation and natural selection.


Good old Mr. Deutsch taught me all that in eighth-grade biology, and I heard this in the halls of the American Association for the Advancement of Science far more recently. But to make sure I hadn't suddenly switched to some other dimension, I double-checked with numerous biologists, scientists, and teachers at the high school, university, and research levels, and all said the same thing.


Instead, Big Bang Cosmology and the relatively new field of exobiology look toward abiogenesis, to consider the possible processes of how the universe and life initially came into being. (Those who advocate intelligent design would do well to follow the lead of the physicists who faced great skepticism about their Big Bang hypothesis. Many critics called it too theological. But instead of turning to public relations and insisting it be taught in high schools from the get go, they stayed within the rigors of scientific methodology and used empirical evidence to support their hypothesis. And far from saying that the universe was created from nothing, it simply postulates everything was at one time at a singular point.)


For those concerned about your own kids' education, consider what North High School biology teacher Peter Bergman had to say: "Evolution and abiogenesis are not related in any way. They are absolutely completely separate. Sometimes teachers will talk about the concept of abiogenesis, but they do it in relation to teaching about the scientific method, not evolution."


For example, Bergman teaches about how for centuries, it was thought that some life forms, like maggots, could spontaneously generate. He likes to discuss this misperception, as it "shows clearly how people can be misled by their observations."


It took a scientific experiment by Francesco Redi in 1668 ?- one of the first to use controls ?- to show that maggots do not spontaneously generate.


Now, why is all this so important? Because the circulation of the fallacy about evolutionary biology being dependent on abiogenesis is a symptom of a much larger set of problems.


One, the fallacy stems in part from a growing scientific illiteracy in this nation. Worse, it is intentionally fueled by anti-evolutionists stirring up false controversies. They falsely claim "evolution depends on abiogenesis," and otherwise distort scientific findings, using marketing strategies and disinformation to prey on people who are too busy to get the facts.


Two, already too few American students are growing up with a firm grasp on science and its methodology, let alone the ability to pursue advanced degrees. It's only going to get worse if such disinformation keeps being spread, making more students decide that science is not worth their time.


Three, there's more at stake than just diplomas and subscriptions to Discover ?- the consequences extend to our economy, our environment, our health and our hope for the futures of our grandchildren.


And it's truly sad, because there is so much out there to marvel at, to puzzle over and delve into more deeply. Scientists aren't arguing they already have the answers ?- they are begging for people to become scientifically literate, to serve as thoughtful analysts rising to the high standards of scientific methodology.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sun 26 Feb, 2006 08:21 am
Add to quantity of water and spray on pitch for quick grass growth.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Sun 26 Feb, 2006 08:33 am
spendius wrote:
I'm inclined to think that some of the anti-ID posts on this thread have been a trifle naive.The idea that the business mind cares two hoots for anything other than a fast,easy profit is laughable.


I don't see how you are connecting these two ideas. How does anti-ID have anything to do with business profits?
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spendius
 
  1  
Sun 26 Feb, 2006 08:39 am
ros-

How old are you young man?
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Sun 26 Feb, 2006 07:45 pm
Quote:
Indiana teachers focusing more on evolution
(By Anne Kibbler, The Herald-Times, February 26, 2006)

BLOOMINGTON, Ind. -- Ten years ago, high school biology teachers in Indiana spent little time teaching students about evolution.

Despite controversy over the place of evolution instruction in the classroom, there's been a shift in the Hoosier state: A new study indicates teachers are devoting more, not less, time to incorporating the concept of evolution into their lessons.

At the same time, the study says, Indiana universities' schools of education could improve their preparation of science teachers on the subject of evolution.

The study, by Indiana University doctoral student Lisa Donnelly, found that instead of tacking evolution on at the end of a course or discussing it in passing, teachers are making Darwin's theory a central organizing principle in their classes.

"Indiana really takes evolution teaching seriously compared with other states," said Donnelly, a former biology teacher at Brown County High School.

Donnelly said that even though Indiana's biology standards support the teaching of evolution, teachers must make sure they don't teach it as dogma. At the same time, she said, they must be true to what they know as science.

One of the areas in which teachers could be better trained is in explaining to students the most basic terminology: What is science? What is a theory?

Dan Henry, who replaced Donnelly at Brown County High, spends time at the beginning of each school year going over fundamental concepts. Once students understand that science must be testable and that theories are proven, not just guesswork, they are more open to accepting the science of evolution, he said.

"I personally use it as an overarching concept of all the biology I teach," Henry said. "I start by presenting evidence for evolution and doing so in a way that is nonconfrontational, showing different viewpoints around the world and showing that people are coming from different religious and ethnic backgrounds. Then I go into evolution and show how it ties together all of the different sciences."

Henry said some students start out being skeptical, but most eventually accept what evolution means. He has only rarely -- perhaps once or twice a year -- fielded complaints from parents about what he is teaching their children.

Such complaints usually are made by people of strong religious convictions, Henry said. He explains to the parents that religion and science are kept separate in the classroom.

At the same time, Henry treads lightly so he doesn't offend students with deep religious beliefs.

"You don't want kids going home saying, 'I've changed my belief system at school, Mom and Dad,' " he said. "But it helps to show them they can come from a lot of different backgrounds and still buy into the idea of science."

Jean Schick, a science teacher at Bloomington High School North and science coordinator for the Monroe County Community School Corp., said showing students how evolution is part of everyday life helps them grasp the scientific concepts.

If students understand that using anti-bacterial soap or taking antibiotics too often can lead to the evolution of resistant bacteria, then they can understand evolution in general, she said. Likewise, if they study climate change or natural disasters, they can see how evolution works on a larger scale.

"When we talk about drought and pollution and weather and competition for resources, those are mechanisms for evolution," Schick said.

She understands that students might have different explanations for life developing on the planet, but the explanations aren't scientific and therefore don't belong in a science class.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Sun 26 Feb, 2006 08:18 pm
spendius wrote:
ros-

How old are you young man?


Why does that matter?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Sun 26 Feb, 2006 08:18 pm
Quote:
Global Warming Fuels Speedy Evolution


Feb. 22, 2006 ?- Don't look now, but your backyard is evolving. It's no joke. There's a growing body of evidence that evolution is no longer something only seen either in this year's flu virus or Cretaceous tyrannosaur bones. It's happening everywhere, right now, and charging full-steam ahead.

Research on toads, frogs, salamanders, fish, lizards, squirrels and plants are all showing evidence that some species are attempting to adapt to new conditions in a time frame of decades, not eons, say biologists.

What's more, one of the biggest reasons for all this evolution right now may be that human-induced changes to climate and landscapes give species few other options.

Move, Adapt or Die
"Basically, a species can do three things," said the University of Sydney's Richard Shine: "go extinct, move or adapt."

The first two have kept conservation biologists working day and night, to the exclusion of the third, he said. But that's changing as real-time evolution is hitting the news wires and getting more attention.

The highest-profile case yet was made public by Shine and his colleagues in the Feb. 16 issue of Nature: the case of toxic cane toads at the forefront of a seven-decade Australian invasion. Measurements over the years prove that the leading toads have evolved significantly longer legs.

It appears that hopping further and faster rewards long-legged toads with the first crack at lush virgin territory, and therefore more offspring to perpetuate their athleticism.

Behind that story are even more cases of rapid evolution, says Shine, an evolutionary ecologist. Already he's seeing changes in native Australian snakes. First they tried to eat the toads, and died. Now, Shine says, the surviving snakes have modified jaws which make them unable to eat the toads and therefore safe from their toxin.

"Invasive species are a nice model," Shine said.

They hint at the rates of evolution that might be expected as species feel the increasing pressure of global warming. They also draw the attention of conservation biologists, who are often on the front lines of battles to save habitats and individual species.

"In the past 20 years, essentially all evolutionary biologists have come to widely recognize the importance and prevalence of (what's) often called 'rapid evolution,'" wrote evolutionary biologist Andrew Hendry of McGill University, who responded to questions via email from the Galapagos Islands. "Many conservation biologists have recently come to the same realization and I expect that the rest will soon follow."

Rapid evolution is good news for conservation biologists. It implies that the number of species that might go extinct will be less than some current estimates, which predict as many as one-third of all species alive today will be wiped out by 2050.

The first known case of a mammal responding genetically to warmer climate warming is the red squirrel of the Yukon Territory.

Canadian scientists have discovered that red squirrels are giving birth about 18 days earlier than their great-grandmothers. It's the early squirrel that gets the nut, after all: natural selection in action.

Frogs In Hot Spots
"Climate change is going to be a massive agent of evolution," said ecologist and rapid evolution researcher David Skelly of Yale University.

The case of the North American wood frog brought Skelly to study rapid evolution. It's a world champion adaptor, he says, because it manages to thrive in ponds as far flung as Alaska and Georgia.

To figure out the wood frog's secret, Skelly and his colleagues raised warm pond tadpoles and cold pond tadpoles from the same forest alongside each other at the same temperature. They were shocked to discover the cold pond tadpoles grew 15 percent faster, as if they had evolved a ramped-up growth rate to compensate for the slower growth rates normally found in cold water.

Next, they tested the tadpoles in a trough with warm water at one end and icy water on the other. Oddly, the cold water wood tadpoles swam toward the warmer water and the warm water tadpoles showed no preference. It's exactly what you'd expect if the cold-water frogs had adapted to living in cold ponds by always seeking the warmest possible spot.

On the other hand, the warm-water frogs never needed that trick, since their water was fine, so they hadn't evolved any preference to warm water.

"When I tell conservation biologists this story, they are astounded," said Skelly.

The wood frogs show how resilient and adaptable frogs can be, he says. Contrary to popular portrayals of frogs as the environmental canaries in the coal mine, most frogs are "fairly bullet proof," he said.

That's why when the frogs disappear, as they are in places like the Monteverde Cloud Forest of Costa Rica, there's all the more reason to be concerned about how drastic climate is changing, he said.

Good Ol' Evolution
Finally, rapid evolution also has something to say about what happened in the past, something about which dusty fossils are silent.

For a long time, paleontologists thought everything always evolved very slowly. But in 1972, Niles Eldridge and Steven J. Gould proposed that sometimes, when there is pressure to change, species evolve much more quickly.

Their "Punctuated Equilibrium" hypothesis explained why Eldridge would find layer upon layer of one sort of trilobite in rocks, "then BOOM, another kind of trilobite," said Spencer Lucas, curator of paleontology and geology at the New Mexico Museum of Natural History and Science.

Where did the new trilobite come from?

"Either it came from elsewhere or it evolved there," said Lucas.

If it evolved rapidly, the odds are against the few intermediate forms also be luckily preserved as fossils, and so the new species would seem to just pop into existence, as read in the rocks. The same holds true of many other sudden appearances of changed versions of animals and plants in the fossil record.

Of course, the rocks don't usually divulge whether it was 100 years or 10,000 years between the an old and new species.

"Even though the fossil record suggests most species take thousands of years to evolve, there's a lot of reason to believe that things happen very rapidly," said Lucas.

So it's not entirely surprising to a paleontologist to hear that biologists are discovering cases of rapid evolution, he said.

"Still," said Lucas, "It's kind of exciting."
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Sun 26 Feb, 2006 08:38 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Quote:
Global Warming Fuels Speedy Evolution


Feb. 22, 2006 ?- Don't look now, but your backyard is evolving. It's no joke. There's a growing body of evidence that evolution is no longer something only seen either in this year's flu virus or Cretaceous tyrannosaur bones. It's happening everywhere, right now, and charging full-steam ahead.


It's important to remember throughout articles like this that the variation required to fuel these evolutionary jumps was already available within the population. What's really happening is that selection is altering the proportion of traits within a population.

This should be obvious since it's the very definition of evolution, but many times I think that articles like this are written in such a way that people misunderstand the driving force behind these rapid changes; selection.

Too often people think that mutation rates have also increased, or that new mutations are required to generate these changes in allele frequency within a population, but that isn't the case. All the variation for these things already exist within the population.
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spendius
 
  1  
Mon 27 Feb, 2006 06:11 am
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2058688,00.html

The attraction of evolution for teachers is that it is dead easy and provides a suitable vehicle for people of average intelligence to pose as having a scientific mindset.Frogs having longer legs is a very simple concept to grasp and with the cause of the longer legs being something of a mystery it may be speculated upon to the heart's content.

Quote:
"Still," said Lucas, "It's kind of exciting."




Social evolution will drive the most intelligent section of the population into other occupations due to the salary levels
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