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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 12:00 pm
Steve and McTag,

Georgeob and I were just discussing Dawkins. You have proved my point about Dawkins trying to proselytize atheism.

In my opinion, Dawkins has done a great job explaining evolutionary theory to the public. However, I feel his promotion of atheism is unneccessary and hurts his credibility.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 12:16 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Richard Dawkins suggests morality/altruism/being nice is quite easily explainable without resorting to fear of punishment from the super alpha male in the sky.


Then perhaps you could explain it to us. While you are at it explain evil and what factors might explain the balance between the two.
Sure How long have you got? In the beginning was the word...

I should perhaps have qualified the above statement by saying if one is a renowned professor of biology and populariser of science it is quite easily...Smile
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 12:17 pm
McTag wrote:
You need religion to help differentiate between good and bad? Surely not.


You miss the point. The question was behavior not the differentiation between good and evil. And the issue was God, not religion. The proposition in dispute is whether, without the idea of god, one could rationalize a moral code in which anything is permitted. So far the objections seem to be "I'm a nice person and I don't believe in god". That, of course, also misses the point.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 12:19 pm
George wrote-

Quote:
Then perhaps you could explain it to us. While you are at it explain evil and what factors might explain the balance between the two.


Evil can only be defined politically without spiritual guidance.It is then what the power elite say it is and will condense around anything the power elite find threatening or even just non-complimentary.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 12:20 pm
So get your knee-pads in stock ye Godless infidels.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 12:21 pm
georgeob,

(dawkins is a highly respected professor in England)
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 12:23 pm
George wrote-

Quote:
I do know how uncomfortable it is to come down from a position taken, whether carelessly or thoughtfully. I certainly don't find it easy and often don't do it when I should.


It's a piece of cake.

(I'm catching up.I've been playing with the funsters on Trivia for a good while.)
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 12:27 pm
wandeljw wrote:
georgeob,

(dawkins is a highly respected professor in England)


I am unintimidated.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 12:31 pm
Lola posted this-

Quote:
spendius wrote:
Lola objected to this from George-

Quote:
However, I do note that, absent the ideas of a god, there is nothing logically to prevent you or anyone from developing a personal code that permits anything.


George is quite correct there.John Lennon once said about New York-"It frightens me what you can do in this town with my money."


So where's God there? He doesn't seem to be doing his job. Must have taken a nap when he got around to NYC.


Sheesh Lola.Can't you see that he meant that his residual Christianity,which we all inevitable got with the milk,was preventing him from taking advantage of his money in a Godless milieux.What particular practices he was referring to I don't know as an innocent country boy but for him to say it they must have been a bit over the top.

Are you not aware that some of you are taking advantage of residual Christianity.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 12:32 pm
hang in there, georgeob. (you will have to deal with our england a2k members) Smile
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 12:36 pm
wandeljw wrote:
Steve and McTag,

Georgeob and I were just discussing Dawkins. You have proved my point about Dawkins trying to proselytize atheism.

In my opinion, Dawkins has done a great job explaining evolutionary theory to the public. However, I feel his promotion of atheism is unneccessary and hurts his credibility.
You make an excellent point there Wandel. I was kind of wondering this the other night as I watch the tv programme that Mctag probably saw too. Certainly Dawkins is not easy on the ear, especially if you hold religious beliefs. But this imo is where I totally agree with him. In the past we have been too concerned about stepping on toes. As reasonable people we dont make a habit of going around saying someone's deeply held religious beliefs amount to ... nothing at all. We actually know better, but what is the point of upsetting someone unnecessarily? The children believe in Father Christmas, do we want to make them cry? So we walk away from religious discourse, perhaps smiling to ourselves that they could possibly believe such nonsense, but nevertheless affording them the respect to which a fellow citizen is due.

But I believe and I think Dawkins would agree that in recent years, faith systems have been shown to do real harm. Belief that they are doing Gods will and encouraged by the idea of immediate paradise has been the incentive behind many despicable criminal acts. Its time to fight back, at an intellectual level, and at the root is irrational religious belief. So I admire Dawkins for having the courage to take on these ideas - despite the risks of which I'm sure he is fully aware.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 12:37 pm
wande wrote-

Quote:
(dawkins is a highly respected professor in England)


He's only respected by me as a whizz con-man.I'll bet money he never gets a mention in the Honours Lists and they have cleaning women in there just to remind tosspots of their station in life.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 12:45 pm
spendius wrote:
wande wrote-

Quote:
(dawkins is a highly respected professor in England)


He's only respected by me as a whizz con-man...


And what do you think the prof would make of you?
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 01:08 pm
If he is as intelligent as I believe him to be he would say-"Hey spendi-I know-good innit?Better than working like a mug like you has to do."

Something like that.

If he's thick he would call me names and expect to be believed by his followers who seem to believe what he says which is not only extremely unoriginal but wrong as well.

It is human nature which has caused all the pain and suffering.Religion is just the banner under which tribal groups unite and fight.I have told you before and I'll tell you again.The pain and suffering is caused by fornication.Obviously if anyone believes they have a right to fornicate they will push the blame anywhere they can and Religion is a real easy scapegoat.In Africa they blame The Church for AIDS.What's new?

When Rider Haggard came across the Zulus he found a religious institution with a severe doctrine that said that a man wasn't allowed to fornicate until he "had dipped his spear into the blood of an enemy".And presumably that doctrine served to render the young men fierce and bloodthirsty and thus protect the tribe.So protecting the tribe was the cause.And if successful led to plenty fornication and thus a need to expand into other territory.

You might as well blame the flags and the military tunes as blame the religion.Why doesn't Dawkins know that?-Oh--I know--He couldn't make controversial and exciting programmes about that and would have to be satisfied with being a non-entity like us lot.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 01:15 pm
Steve-

I offered this yesterday-

Quote:
I would love to make a programme which delved comprehensively into how much the Dawkins programmes cost and have all the invoices spread out to see where it went and hear the justifications for each questionable item.I think that would be a worthwhile documentary with Rory Bremner fronting it aided by an Inspector from the Inland Revenue..It is our money isn't it?

Gee!I'd watch that.


Do you think there's any chance of the BBC putting that out?
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 01:24 pm
If its human nature that has caused all the pain and suffering...and the pain and suffering is caused by fornication (I dont often use the long version of the F word, but I believe it means the same) then surely the answer is simple. Do away with human nature or rather humans. And if we stopped f******* we would! QED
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 01:27 pm
Well as it was on chanel 4 I doubt that very much.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 01:40 pm
Sorry about the Beeb then.I was misinformed.In which case the Beeb might be interested in my idea if they can get the invoices which might prove difficult.

I must admit though that I thought it strange that the Beeb was involved as I was told they were.

It's Mr Grade then isn't it?Is it?I only watch Sky Sports and Classic FM.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 01:54 pm
Yes Mr Grade, and he's not a Christian either.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 11 Jan, 2006 02:02 pm
Theeeeplllllot thickens.
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