Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

wandel-I admit that the decision of Judge Jones is a legal repudiation of ID for one area of the US. However , ID as a movement isnt finished by a long shot. They will be better prepared next time and , perhaps by accepting a non-science curriculum role, can at least be heard in schools, waiting for a day when the "establishment clause" isnt so rigorously defended or is more widely interpreted. The whole issue of whether or not the entire ID/Creationist movement is even a science only goes back to 1920 when the first states had a "No EVOLUTION " law. Real Life doesnt understand the hiostory when he states that its "evolution 24/7" cause in the 20's in many states it was "No evolution can be taught" and the states that didnt have the law, followed the spirit. Pennsylvania had a "Henry Morris "colloquium on "Flood Geology" as part of teachers institutes. Its been fairly recently that the actual rules have gone the other way.

I dont disagree withyour take on the Jones deceision , but we shall have to wait and see whether itll have "legs". I know that , in other Fed Districts, the decision will be able to be brought forward as a precedent, but they could have the decision as being "overreaching" for that case.

My real point was that, no matter what Jones decision was, the community is split down the middle on this. Ive been reading lots of letters to the Lancaster papers that sound more like Pat Robertson wishing that "destruction" be rained down on Dover. At least half the people aint buying judge Jones decision. Thats gotta count for something.

Yeh, thanks ci, the term is D&O (directors and officers) insurance.SPENDI Its not a benefit. We have many boards in the US , that are totally volunteer based. (Maybe only a paid executive director) The legal status and the bylaws define the "requirements" of board makeup and also specify that insurance , among some other things is provided for the board and the board members are part of the named organization , which is that which carries the insurance. Nobody pays tax as income , cause its not income

I have no idea of what youre attempting to communicate with these numbers. Maybe Im slow .

Let us pause awhile.

Do insurance companies pay the costs of these types of litigations no matter who get the nod from the judge.

That's simple enough.

Anybody who doesn't know that insurance companies are a part of the betting industry has lost his bearings goodstyle.

And that if insurance companies end up paying the Dover invoice all the hundreds of thousands of premium payers will get a letter stating that due to the recent increase in awards by the courts etc etc blah blah blah.

spendi

We oftenThink of an insurance company as the HOUSE. Even a casino always wins, it makes its money on the certain , but imperceptably small edge that it enjoys. Insurance companies, and engineering companies, builders, stock brokers etc are, therefore all part of the BETTING industry. They feel that they can make money because their total delivered product , be it a house or an insurance settlement, can be delivered for less than the money taken in. The residual , they call profit.
Nothing thats even an argument here. Do you know how Lloyds began? a very interesting tale awaits you

However, many insurance companies are now in dire straits and the "betting industry parallel" may not hold anymore thanks to massive pollution cases, the cigarrette settlements , 9/11. occasional disasters etc.

As far as who pays out in Dover---That, my friend is a very intelligent question. The insurance company have, as a motto of practise somethhing like
"We insurance companies would love to take your money and never give it back"

Yes , the insurance company, with policy limitations, stipulations, deductibles, and anything else its actuarial types can gin up may be in the bag for the case. Unless, of course, a policy clause has been breached.

I do work in settlements of large mining damage claims all over the world. These claims can involve hundreds of millions of dollars whenever a mining company has caused environmnetal pollution resulting from its past operations. The mining companies had bought insurance products that were "pollution damage " or "Environmental Impairment Liability"(EIL) policies. Back in the 50s and 60s every insurance company wrote these . 30 years later, weve created instruments that can detect mining wastes in ground water to the part per billion level. So now we have laws forbidding damages by chemicals and the mining company sues its carrier to help clean up.The insurance companies atre now squirming to get out of their responsibility and the terms of their policies. There are thousands of attorneys out there running cases to protect insurance companies from payout claims. So far the insurance comapnies have been losing and in the 80s some states put limits of coverages into law, and also limits of "triggers" of coverage. So the cases are getting fewer but larger
NOW, whats that to do with Dover. The policies were written by company X for the district and the D&O policy .Im sure that the insurance company will want to review and possibly deny coverage because the board acted "outside their charge", (but, as far as I know, there werent any ID clauses or such) The same thing is happening in some of the Catholic diocese claims in the sexual harrassment cases being brought against the various diocese The insurance industry has been taking it and not to argue your "betting industry comment" A whole lot of insurance comapnies have gone out of business . Here in Pa a biggy named Reliance went belly up because of pollution cases and some other larger claims ( they insured lots of risky stuff)
.

spendi prolly never heard of Lloyds of London.

farmerman, I worked in management most of my professional life, and it was my responsibility to make sure volunteer board members knew of their fiduciary responsibilities and about D&O insurance if it was not provded by the organization. I also served as a board member on several nonprofit organizations, and shared D&O information with others.

everyboard is an "attractive litigant"

So Dover is a speck on the horizon.

spendi wrote:
So Dover is a speck on the horizon.

spendi, Do YOU see the horizon?

It's all I ever see.I'm a Faustian.You're the "here and now" merchant mate.An ancient Greek really.
I bet you think the Parthenon is art.And the 2D pictures on Grecian urns.
Homer's pretty hexameters,like a babbling brook,are the accents of matter.
Christian poems like the Stabreim conjure potential energy.Can't you hear the infinite space in the 18th century music of Northern Europe or see it in Rembrandt.

We Faustians are dynamic.Greeks were static in their maths and in their religions.

You don't know what you are talking about c.i.You're out of your depth pal.You must only read tabloids from what I can see.I bet you haven't even read Faust.You don't even know where we've come from.I don't suppose you want to either.

Spendi if you woudl just communicate with us mortals a little less Delphic like, and a little more Chas Kennedy like (dont know why that name cropped up) we might be able to

a understand you
b understand you

It's easy Steve.You must have heard of Faust doing a deal with Old Nick so he can have a "here and now" splurge and take a chance on it having no consequences.Mephistopheles is Science.You can Google him up easy.And We are Faust under the materialistic temptations.One could see the "afterlife" as the subsequent generations carrying our DNA etc.Is our duty to provide them with a heaven or with a hell?Have you seen the budget deficit?Somebody has to pay it at some point.Trying to pay it now gets you knocked out of the primaries in Round 1.

Without Religion you have not even got a handbrake.
As Dylan said-"We're going all the way till the wheels fall off and burn." He's a pessimist though.

What my friends are doing on here is like playing football without the ball.That's why they are so expert.You must have heard them in the pub telling Sven how to do his job having forgotten he's dealing with a squad of young,fairly uneducated multi millionaires and Footballers Wives.It's a bit like that.

Does that help.I'm a bit too busy to elaborate.

absolutement mon ami danke

I noticed in today's "Independent" that Prof Richard Dawkins is to broadcast a two-part TV programme on our Channel 4, starting Sunday.

Now, I can't find any info on the article in the newspaper website but here's what the TV Channel website says.
The article goes on the discuss the fallacy of Intelligent Design.

The Root of All Evil?
[subtitles]
The God Delusion
Professor Richard Dawkins, Chair of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford and world-renowned evolutionary biologist, is no stranger to controversy. In this contentious two-part series, Dawkins decribes God as the most unpleasant fictional character of all and launches a wholehearted attack on religion as the cause for much of the pain and suffering in the world.

McT

Quote: In this contentious two-part series, Dawkins decribes God as the most unpleasant fictional character of all and launches a wholehearted attack on religion as the cause for much of the pain and suffering in the world.

Now, that's saying something with intelligence, logic, and facts.

Breaking the headmaster's windows has always been popular with frustrated attention seekers.Does the Prof compare the pain and suffering with what it was like for the 2 million years before Religion.

spendi, I have a surprise info for you; we can't do anything about the past.

c.i.-

You haven't been reading my posts as I suspected.

I really don't know how you arrived at that post.Did you think I thought we could do something about the past other than paint our own picture of it.

Can't you see that the Prof is guilty of the crassest use of teleology which I presume he doesn't think we will notice.He's probably working on that old maxim about it being impossible to underestimate human intelligence.A faulty maxim actually.