Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

The first time I remember thinking about a god I was a kid lying in bed. With no prior thought of which I was aware, I said to myself, "If there was a god Mama wouldn't suffer like she does." I had heard something somewhere but I will never dredge it out from my distantest memories. After that I argued against god's existence every night lying in bed. It was tough to accept that death means being truly dead. Once I got beyond that there was no turning back. In church I had heard the minister tell us that god is the source of our morality. Without a god we have no morals. I asked myself if not god, what is the source. I heard a voice deep within myself telling me we are born with the morals we grow up with. The reason I was going to church was to try to force myself to be a Christian. It didn't take. All the arguments I was to hear for a god's existence had no substance. I didn't need to grow older and learn what science tells us about evolution to be a confirmed atheist. People have bullied me over this. I had to give up a woman I wanted to marry because of it. I have learned the arguments pro and con as an adult and have continued to conclude that no god exists. I no longer allow myself to be bullied over it.

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@edgarblythe,

You can't reject what you don't know.

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@edgarblythe,

The Pharisee asked Jesus what he must do to inherit everlasting life, and he was told that he should love God with all his body all his mind and all his soul and to love his neighbor as himself, and he would live.

I can imagine that you love and care for the environment and animals around you, which the eternal has become, and somehow, I cannot see you doing to your neighbor that which you wouldn't want others to do to you.

What a wonderful world it would be, if everyone treated their neighbor as they would want to be treated themselves. You cannot say that you love God and yet hate your neighbor who God has become.

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@bobsal u1553115,

Quote:

I didn't realize I was under any obligation.

Not to me anyway. Otherwise, it’s up to you.

1 Peter 3:15 KJV
[15] But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

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@Leadfoot,

I think I described unconditional love pretty well.

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@bobsal u1553115,

So ‘unconditional' until the end you say.

Somehow that sounds conditional.

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@Theo202,

That's what you say.

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@edgarblythe,

To think otherwise is vanity. All you can reject is your conception of it.

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@Theo202,

I had the very elemental concept of "god," without layers of dogma to muddy it all. Besides, as I grew to adulthood it turned out my youthful decision was the correct one. Even if in some crazy way you could be correct it wouldn't matter in the end. Also, children are often as able to think things through as well as any adult.

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@edgarblythe,

It's not crazy to think that people have an imperfect knowledge of deity. It matters in the same way as errors leads to injury.

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@edgarblythe,

[quote]as I grew to adulthood it turned out my youthful decision was the correct one.[/quote]

As Frank would say; 'You guess (Or you think) that you made the correct decision."

Do you have anyone to confirm that you made the correct decision, or is that just your own opinion?

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I had the very elemental concept of "god," without layers of dogma to muddy it all. Besides, as I grew to adulthood it turned out my youthful decision was the correct one. Even if in some crazy way you could be correct it wouldn't matter in the end. Also, children are often as able to think things through as well as any adult.

This one seems to be a reasonable guess...although it probably seems that way to me because it is a guess I am willing to make.

Quote:

The first time I remember thinking about a god I was a kid lying in bed. With no prior thought of which I was aware, I said to myself, "If there was a god Mama wouldn't suffer like she does."

This one doesn't work...unless you are only considering a god that gets involved. It certainly is possible a GOD or gods created what we humans consider "the universe" and decided to see what happens...sorta like dropping a tiny drop of iodine or food dye into a glass of water to see what happens. After you see "what happens"...you just throw it out.

Perhaps that is what is happening. IF there is a GOD or gods who did that, they may be just waiting to see "what happens." IF they did, they only dropped the drop a few billion years ago...a microsecond in their time.

There is a huge difference between guessing there is a GOD (like the joker from the Bible) and guessing there may be a CREATOR GOD of some kind.

I, too, used to wonder why my mother suffered so much. I knew the immediate cause was my father getting drunk often and beating the **** out of her...but why would the GOD I thought existed allow that?

Perhaps I was considering the wrong kind of god. Perhaps the god is one dropping the drop and not stirring the glass in any way...just letting the drop do whatever it does...and then throwing it all out after a while.

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@Theo202,

My reading tells me you are an antisemitic. I don't deal with racists.

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Disclaimer: I feel that I should be allowed to share what it is to be an atheist from my particular perspective and believers have the right to question me about it, just as I question believers. I don't respond however to bullies, racists or megalomaniacs.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Disclaimer: I feel that I should be allowed to share what it is to be an atheist from my particular perspective and believers have the right to question me about it, just as I question believers. I don't respond however to bullies, racists or megalomaniacs.

Lots of people feel that way.

Then, whenever they cannot answer a person reasonably, the deem them to be bullies, racists, or megalomaniacs.

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The reason I attended church services every Sunday for an extended period was because I had listened to some Christians speak glowingly of the rewards bestowed on their lives, how fulfilling, all of the answers, etc., and I wanted some of that. Being dirt poor inside a dysfunctional family and having Asperger's had placed me on the outside of human society, like a spider on water, not heavy enough to break the tension and sink. During the latter days before I dropped out, I tried to force myself into believing in a god. It was a disillusioning time all the way around. Once I gave up church going I let the matter ride until about age seventeen.
experience all the way around.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

The reason I attended church services every Sunday for an extended period was because I

was forced to.

When I was old enough to make my own decisions I stopped.

Now I spend my Sundays at Car Boots, far more rewarding and the people you meet are a lot friendlier too.

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Frank wrote:

Quote:

Perhaps I was considering the wrong kind of god. Perhaps the god is one dropping the drop and not stirring the glass in any way...just letting the drop do whatever it does...and then throwing it all out after a while.

I am constantly astounded by how Frank's thoughts parallel my own and yet arrive at opposite ends. A pity he finds mine so abhorrent, I’d love to know how he got there.

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@edgarblythe,

I tried to edit this but ran out of time.

edgarblythe wrote:

The reason I attended church services every Sunday for an extended period was because I had listened to some Christians speak glowingly of the rewards bestowed on their lives, how fulfilling, all of the answers, etc., and I wanted some of that. Being dirt poor inside a dysfunctional family and having Asperger's had placed me on the outside of human society, like a spider on water, not heavy enough to break the tension and sink. During the latter days before I dropped out, I tried to force myself into believing in a god. It was a disillusioning time all the way around. Once I gave up church going I let the matter ride until about age seventeen.
experience all the way around.

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Frank wrote:

Quote:
Perhaps I was considering the wrong kind of god. Perhaps the god is one dropping the drop and not stirring the glass in any way...just letting the drop do whatever it does...and then throwing it all out after a while.

I am constantly astounded by how Frank's thoughts parallel my own and yet arrive at opposite ends. A pity he finds mine so abhorrent, I’d love to know how he got there.

I decided a couple days ago to take you off IGNORE, Leadfoot. I do not remember what it was that caused me to put you on...I very, very seldom use the IGNORE function. Gonna see how things go.

I just read your bio...and we do have more parallels than you suppose. I also have always been interested in flying (I've flown the Cessna 140 and the Piper Cherokee). I also worked for Lockheed Martin for a short while . For me the question of "What is "all this" about?" is the Ultimate Question...and the one that interests me the most.

I have not read anything you've written for years before this week...and I do not remember your position on the issues being discussed here, but I seriously doubt I found them "abhorrent."

Give me an idea of where you are at regarding the existence of gods in the "all this." Let's see if we can have a reasonable discussion.

1 Reply

Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

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