Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

wande

Yes, that's the trick. Present it as a matter of intellectual freedom/suppression.

wande-

Once again,as is usual,the scientist here is choosing safe ground and on which he is in uncontested possession.

But science works in other areas.

For example-emotions originate from the instincts which is the somatic side.Ideas,however, are psychic or non-somatic.As these two aspects of human behaviour exist together,and the more so in scientists than,say,cave dwellers,what is it that connects them in behavioural manifestations.

What emotional states exist in each side of this discussion.I am totally on board for an emotionless discussion of all natural phenomena included the sexual function of human beings,including professors, in any and every social situation.It is easy to be emotionless about the earth going around the sun and chiclids etc.

The seeming fact that the prof can discuss evolution emotionlessly (which I doubt anyway) has nothing to do with the fact that the subject does engage the emotions of a large number of people and I have heard it said a substantial majority of the US population.And for perfectly justifiable reasons which had they been explained to Dover voters might have produced a different result.He may well have an emotional connection to this topic through his career prospects or habit of thought or a sense of self esteem.So also others.

What the prof is doing is positing a battle of his ideas against the somatic side of others and leaving his soma back at home among the frilly underwear and a range of other stuff far too derogatory to science to mention.He has all his veils in place.

I would imagine you would have difficulty finding an IDer who thought the earth was flat or that the sun went round the earth.

He also has no idea how to construct a simile.

And that is about as gentle a version I can think up.

you're an old romantic really aren't you Spendy?

"I would imagine you would have difficulty finding an IDer who thought the earth was flat or that the sun went round the earth."

This only represents a symptom of IDers belief in a book that is archaic by contemporary standards of knowledge.

oh but wait. It gets better



Speaking of which, did you see Wayne Rooney against West Ham yesterday?

spendius,

Steven Gey is a law professor, not a scientist. In 1987, Steven Gey successfully argued before the Supreme Court that teaching creationism is unconstitutional. He has recently written a paper explaining why the teaching of intelligent design is also unconstitutional. He is an expert on education issues.

(As far as his ability to construct a simile, he successfully convinced seven of the nine supreme court justices that teaching creationism is unconstitutional.)

Steve wrote-



Yes I did.He faded a little in the 2nd half I thought.

But he is exceptional although the opposition was poor.It was a lucky goal they scored,albeit quite classy,depending as it did on three richochets near the West Ham penalty area whilst Ferdinand was straighting his pony-tail.A sort of chance mutation.It was a bit one sided really.

wande wrote-



I thought SC members were chosen because they didn't need convincing of anything.So I would rather say that superficially he seemed to convince them.And two he didn't.Mr Bush convinced his supreme court and now a lot of them are screaming blue murder.Would Mr Bush get elected today.Who appointed Prof Gey's opponent in the case.That might be a factor as well.And maybe some trade-off deals done on the phone.Who knows?

Final briefs in the Dover school district trial have been filed on behalf of plaintiffs and defendants. They are available on the court's website:

http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller.htm

Sometimes a fable can reveal more truth than christians are willing to admit.


On the outskirts of a small Georgia town, there was a big, old pecan tree just inside the cemetery fence.

One day, two boys filled up a bucketful of nuts and sat down by the tree, out of sight, and began dividing the nuts.

"One for you, one for me. One for you, one for me," said one boy.

Meanwhile, several dropped and rolled down toward the fence. Another boy came riding along the road on his bicycle. As he passed, he thought he heard voices from inside the cemetery. He slowed down to investigate. Sure enough, he heard, "One for you, one for me. One for you, one for me." He just knew what it was.
He jumped back on his bike and rode off. Just around the bend he met an old man with a cane, hobbling along.

"Come here quick," said the boy, "you won't believe what I heard! Satan and the Lord are down at the cemetery dividing up the souls." The man said, "Beat it kid, can't you see it's hard for me to walk." When the boy insisted though, the man hobbled to the cemetery.

Standing by the fence they heard, "One for you, one for me. One for you, one for me..." The old man whispered, "Boy, you've been tellin' the truth. Let's see if we can see the Lord." Shaking with fear, they peered through the fence, yet were still unable to see anything.

The old man and the boy gripped the wrought iron bars of the fence tighter and tighter as they tried to get a glimpse of the Lord.

At last they heard, "One for you, one for me. That's all. Now let's go get those nuts by the fence and we'll be done."

They say the old man made it back to town a full 5 minutes ahead of the boy on the bike.

Do you have to listen to jokes like that at the bar.

No. We just want to scare people like you away. LOL

Yes-good but May 6 next year.I'm not that sure what I'll be up to in 6 hours never mind 6 months.
I hate plans although I'm aware of the necessity to have essential supplies in stock.Planning whims is not my style at all.
But I do hope you have a good time.I'd be worried about having my fantasies discombabulated by the reality.Suppose Angelique or Devvie turned out to be fat old bats with loud incessant voices instead of the little darlings I think they are.

Discombabulation (though it was pronounced 'discumbobulation' in our household) has marked EVERY face to face meeting I've had with folks whom I first met here (some 30 or more persons, I guess). But, what the hell.

Hi Bernie,

Have you seen that movie yet.I'm sort of looking forward to your take on it.Scene by scene preferably.

Where do you keep disappearing to?

It must be strange when a cyber person appears in the flesh complete with all the unfortunate dispositions they don't have on here.If I lived in Chigago,which thankfully I don't,I still wouldn't go.

spendius,
You apparently forgot that I live in Chicago!

wande-

I didn't mean anything against Chicago or its citizens.It's just that I like where I am so much.

According to Frank Harris it's the abattoir city or was in 1900.He claimed he was there for that big fire but you never know with Frank.He holds the world record for BS which will probably never be beaten.

Attorneys for the plaintiffs in Kitzmiller v. Dover have summarized points made by Dr. Miller during the trial regarding Behe's blood-clotting example:

wande-

That seems ridiculous to me.They are never going to disprove irreducible complexity.Not ever.They deserve to lose the case on the basis that they "believe" in "peer reviews" whatever they are.
Probably 100% SDers or people who were doing useful and genuine research which they never thought would one day be used in this way.It is a wonderful thing to be reducing complexity but to think you can go all the way is messianic.

Why are they so chary of the sociological and psychological arguments

Crash and burn for another supposedly "irreducibly" complex system.