Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

JLNobody wrote:

Here we see politico-theological variation within the Church, and it's to be expected that Coyne, with his scientific training, should take a position more rational (and progressive?) than that of the conservative Schoenborn.

Coyne recognizes the danger; namely the grounding of theology on the rocks of empiricism.

So long as theology maintains its lofty place above the mundane limits of the material world it can still present itself in a Godly fashion (and lead the flock). But the more it plays in the mud of the physical world the dirtier it gets.

Science chooses to accept the limits of naturalism and it flourishes within those limits. Religion need not enter this place, and its leaders are wise to avoid it.

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Right, Rosborne, and a theology grounded in experienced reality is both (morally) "dirty" and (scientifically) vulnerable to falsification.

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Quote:

The Rev. George Coyne, the Jesuit director of the Vatican Observatory, said placing intelligent design theory alongside that of evolution in school programs was "wrong" and was akin to mixing apples with oranges.

That's a very dubious comparison.And not very complimentary as well.Have we got definitions for these two concepts that could be applied to teaching.Or will they vary from place to place depending on a range of factors?

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spendius,

Evolution belongs to science education. Intelligent Design belongs to religion or metaphysics. It would be mixing apples with oranges to include intelligent design in science education.

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Wandeljw, that's clearly correct, but you're whistling in the wind, arn't you?

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JL

JLNobody wrote:

Wandeljw, that's clearly correct, but you're whistling in the wind, arn't you?

Who taught Adam and Eve to whistle in the Garden of Eden?

BBB

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wande-

It would never be like mixing apples and oranges under any circumstances whatsoever.(tautologies for emphasis).Biological science covers a far wider range than the specific topics taught in a short course.You are confusing a part with the whole.I wouldn't mind betting that apples and oranges have far more points of similarity than differences anyway.

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JLNobody wrote:

Wandeljw, that's clearly correct, but you're whistling in the wind, arn't you?

spendius just affirmed what I think you were saying, JLN. However, I am always unable to tell whether spendius is actually being serious.

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Quote:

Dover looks ahead
(By MICHELLE STARR, York Daily Record, November 21, 2005)
Several incoming Dover Area School Board members said they hope to mend their polarized community through communication and building trust.
Nearly two weeks ago, eight challengers from a group called Dover CARES defeated eight incumbents who supported mentioning intelligent design - the idea that life is too complex to have randomly evolved, so it must have had a designer - in science class.
Intelligent design is at the heart of a lawsuit in federal court alleging the district violated the separation of church and state when it added the concept to the curriculum.
Candidates on both sides said more than intelligent design was at stake during the elections. But the issue of intelligent design helped fuel the division between supporters of incumbents and challengers. Patricia Dapp, an incoming board member, said any decision about the next step for intelligent design in the classroom should be made as a group, including educators and administrators.

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wande-

As quoting from newspapers is in order here's one from yesterday's Sunday Times.It is from an article about a retired NYC teacher of long experience,Frank McCourt who wrote the bestseller Angela's Ashes.
This relates to Teacher Man and is written by the interviewer Tony Allen-Mills.

"What emerges most strongly from the pages of Teacher Man is that no amount of government policy or school guidelines matter as much as the simple human dynamic between teacher and taught.It was true in the age of Tom Brown's Schooldays and Mr Chips;it remains true in the age of students who come to school with mobile phones and iPods."

Or guns and knives one might add.

This suggests what I have been saying in various ways all along;that the Dover debate has nothing to do with the kids and is simply a farcical battle played out by idiotic adults for a range of motives some of which I've alluded to from time to time and some of which,no doubt,I haven't thought of yet or found too indecent for the innocent eyes on this thread.None of them give a flying fornication for the kids and,in my view,are in danger of damaging them.

For myself I would replace "matter as much as" with "stands comparison with".The former is too wishy-washy and insults the readers intelligence.It could mean 51/49 whereas I see it at 90/10 at least.

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spendius,
You must have a vivid imagination! Smile

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wande-

Do you think of that as an advantage or not?

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Imagination is probably an advantage, spendius. My own posts seem dry and boring.

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Imagination is an advantage in fiction . . . it hardly recommends itself to a discussion of scientific discovery. Were the topic speculation on scientific matters for which there are no good answers, it might be admissible. In a discussion of the ID loonies versus a sound secondary school science curriculum, it isn't needed . . .

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I like to think of spendius as Wallace from "Wallace and Gromit".

http://www.gartenbaukino.at/images/inhalt/schule/wallace_gromit.jpg

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Set, in response to your statement--"Imagination is an advantage in fiction . . . it hardly recommends itself to a discussion of scientific discovery"--let me ask you: what is the place of "imagination" in the creation of hypotheses for scientific testing?

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JLN, I was thinking the same thing as I read Set's post. Thanks for beating me to the punch. Imagination is a core requirement for science.

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wandeljw wrote:

I like to think of spendius as Wallace from "Wallace and Gromit".

Now that did get a burst of the jollity out of me.

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They are but a miniscule speck of faint light on the edge of my radar screen which hasn't moved.

Which is which?

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spendius,

Wallace is the one wearing a tie (Gromit is his dog and assistant). Wallace lives in a very rural part of England. His manner of speaking reminds me of the way you express yourself. (No offense intended.)

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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

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