The US, UN & Iraq II

Perc

It was a joke. I wonder sometimes if Americans ever understand irony.

I can hear the response now...."Well y'know I really never did trust those darn Ironians".

To all concerned

We have access to 3 --- 24/7 news channels and they all have "real time coverage" ( CNN---MSNBC---FOX)

These channels all have reporters with the troops transmitting in real time. No chance for filtering and/or censorship.

For instance right this moment they are reporting on the execution of several( could be a company size supply unit) US supply personnel who took a wrong turn in the sand storm. They are also reporting on the "brutal" conditions presented to these troops.

They are also reporting on the desperate effort on the part of coalition forces to provide food and water to the residents of UMM Casa and Basrah. The Baath party has cut off the electricity to the pumps providing water. Coalitions forces are having considerable difficulty clearing mines from the port and entrance way to the port.
Otherwise badly needed supplies would be on the way to Basrah. The Iraqi troops continue to execute regular army troops trying to surrender.

BBC is also very good but I'm not sure if they have real time reporting.

As I have reported earlier we are losing the propaganda war due mostly to the biased reporting of Al Jazeera---due to your lust for reports that suport your positions I would suggest you listen to Al Jazeera.

Steve

Due to our stupidity and simplistic world view we never understand any of your extremely sophisticated humor.

This from the BBC link Wilso posted earlier. What I picked up on was the Geneva bit.

We've all heard the outrage of the US government about how Iraq violated the Geneva Conventions by parading the POWs in front of the cameras. Some already pointed out that the US itself has actually refused to even have the Geneva Conventions apply to any of the prisoners it took in Afghanistan - the ones that have been held for many months now, without any due course of judicial process, at Guantanamo Bay.

But here's another tidbit that suggests the US might again not quite have taken appropriate measures to respect the Conventions itself:

Nimb

Yes FOX just reported Iraqi TV back on the air-----BARF---Saddam must have some Google technicians keeping his TV on the air. Google is the best.

Nimb wrote:

<Amnesty International has warned that the bombing of Iraqi state television station in Baghdad by US-led forces could be a breach of the Geneva Conventions. >

Why would they say "could be a breach"? If they want to be experts they should say unequivocably--"it is a breach" correct me if I'm wrong.

Salam Pax is an Iraqi weblogger, the only one, apparently, and almost every day reports from Bagdad about daily life in the city. Bombardments, sirens and long lines at the gas stations. He has been proven right when, for example, contradicting BBC reports that the state broadcaster was taken over by the Americans.

Many have doubted whether Salam Pax is "for real" or whether he is a hoax, set up by CIA or Mossad. According to the technology journalist Paul Boutin Pax could well be real. In any case he does really appear to be located in Iraq.

Salam Pax weblog
Is the Baghdad blogger for real?

www.iraqbodycount.org

"The worldwide update of reported civilian casualties in the war on Iraq"

How many civilians have died in the war against Iraq? The Americans don't want to know. ,,We don't do body counts," said general Tommy Franks. A group of independent researchers does count. They estimate there's been 213-292 civilian casualties thus far. The method they use to count the dead was also used in in Afghanistan.

Members of the Iraq Peace Team who are now in Baghdad keep online diaries at http://electroniciraq.net/news/iraqdiaries.shtml

thanks for all the links nimh

depends on the circumstances of the case, perception. it could be a breach if they do it in a certain way. it may not be a breach if it is done in some other way. that is my lay understanding though. i still don't think it is a good choice to bomb iraqi tv, many iraqi people depended on the tv and i don't think they are able at this time to access other sources of news. surely it was biased and full of propaganda, but at least they had an idea of where the forces are and when to flee for their lives. i might be wrong, i know that before the war iraqis were able to listen to bbc, for example.

She is real enuogh ..... a law student ....

http://www.raena.net/

Nimh, I heard around 500 casualties so far, on NPR yesterday late afternoon.

They're saying the bomb that disrupted iraqi TV was meant for a nearby target.....

The "body count" provided by Nimb's link----Min 227----Max 307. This is after 5000 bombs and missiles have hit all of Iraq. Let's put this into perspective ----- the US highways and SUVs account for more than 700 every week.

Out of 22 million people ( the approx population of Iraq) how many do you think Saddam executed every week?

For quite a few months, I've been linking analyses which point to a purposive strategy, forwarded by a small group of individuals in or supporting the US administration, which has as it's goal the military and economic dominance of the world by the US. This following column from the Atlanta Constitution-Journal makes the case exceedingly well...
http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/opinion/0902/29bookman.html

Talk about irony! What more do we want from the UN than peace keeping and humanitarian aid? Didn't the US really want the UN to join in an unprovoked invasion?

My view is that, before we demand that the UN "demonstrate some relevancy," we demand that the Bush administration demonstrate the "relevancy" of their invasion.

I watch CNN now and again and I think your notions about 'real time reporting' are a bit optimistic.

The reporters are there, for sure, "embedded" with the soldiers. That itself is an opportunity and a limitation: the opportunity to report right from the front, and the limitation of writing from that one front. We get to see what the American soldiers see - that's quite amazing - but not what the Iraqi soldiers, or even civilians see - hence the blatant one-sidedness of it.

Al-Jazeera does have reporters briefing about the fate of the Iraqis inside Bagdad and Basra, and is therefore a necessary counterweight. Without Al-Jazeera, we wouldnt even ever have known about those civilian casualties, no matter how "real time" CNN reports. The BBC, too, as Little K noted, is very much 'in there' with its field reporters - and I think the fact they are not (solely) embedded but also 'around' in Iraq is a good thing, in terms of comprehensive and objective journalism.

Now to the "real time"ness of the reporting. It is empathically not a webcam you're looking at. You're looking at a reporter who, at a specific point in time, after deliberation with the station's editors as well as approval of the military commander there, reports on selected events of the past hour/day, with a selection of image material shot during that hour/day, in addition to the live image of the moment.

At each of these steps there are processes of editing. The military gets to OK when the reporter goes on air, and gets to say "no" if the images are not what he wants to get out. The journalists also depend on the military for their continued "embeddedness", so they will exercise some self-censorship as well. At CNN/MSNBC/Etc headquarters, at the switchboard they decide which field report is going on air, for how long. The reporter decides on what events of the moment and of the past hour/etc he will report, with which of the images he has shot while CNN was broadcasting an interview with a military expert from the Pentagon. In a way this is how it should be, because news is all about extracting 'the story' from 24/7 reality for us, the viewers, but it sure explains how you'll get totally different stories from station to station even in these "real time" times.

...."Well y'know I really never did trust those darn Ironians".

Aren't the Ironians right next door to the Eye-Wrackies? Their movies are good, but they're probably pond scum too. But the worst are those darn Turkeys...

I'm actually reluctant to share this link but it is quite amazing, so in the interests of the free exchange of information:-

This is from Russian military intelligence summary [GRU]