The US, UN & Iraq II

C.I wrote:

For anybody to even imply that we are not behind our military men and women do not understand what this discussion is all about. c.i.

This nonsensical little, seemingly sincere patriotic pronouncement, is analogous to demonstrating against law enforcement and shouting encouragement to the the thugs and then saying---oh but I'm firmly for law and order.

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Antagonistic, arrogant, and inaccurate, perception.

The forum would benefit greatly if you would self-edit.

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Preferably DELE, Diddie.

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Pdiddie

Oh and just how is it inaccurate?

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Quote:

Zinni liked and understood the Arabs he dealt with but sometimes chafed under their caution and restraint. Getting the rulers of the Gulf states to agree on measures for the common defense, he whispered during a meeting, was "like watching paint dry." Even more frustrating to Zinni, Priest writes, was Washington's refusal to see what was behind the "rising anti-Americanism" of what he called "the Arab street." Priest must have discussed this with him often. "Much of this," she writes,

[Zinni] blamed on Washington's unwillingness to craft a durable peace between Israel and the Palestinians. He complained time and again that the United States wasn't doing enough to solve the problem. After all, it had considerable leverage that it had never even threatened to use: an annual aid payment of nearly $3 billion a year to Israel and millions spent on development projects in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Zinni liked and understood the Arabs he dealt with but sometimes chafed under their caution and restraint. Getting the rulers of the Gulf states to agree on measures for the common defense, he whispered during a meeting, was "like watching paint dry." Even more frustrating to Zinni, Priest writes, was Washington's refusal to see what was behind the "rising anti-Americanism" of what he called "the Arab street." Priest must have discussed this with him often. "Much of this," she writes,

[Zinni] blamed on Washington's unwillingness to craft a durable peace between Israel and the Palestinians. He complained time and again that the United States wasn't doing enough to solve the problem. After all, it had considerable leverage that it had never even threatened to use: an annual aid payment of nearly $3 billion a year to Israel and millions spent on development projects in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16155

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Your metaphor claims that people who protest the war are not in support of our armed forces.

Prove THAT, you jerk.

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Pdiddie

You just can't control yourself without resorting to name calling can you?

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Tartarin wrote:

Perception -- Most people, including our troops and Saddam, don't need to have it spelled out. If you do, I sympathize. But it's not going to stop me from being as much of a peace activist as I can be.

The soldiers who will liberate Iraq are "peace activists", only their actions will actually bring about peace. Yours are just self-congratulatory, masturbatory fluff. "Look at me! I'm against war!" Like anyone is for war. Rolling Eyes

This is the beauty of the positions people on the political left so often take--they are positions that don't require thought, consideration of cost or consequence; they are positions that just "feel" right. Who cares if the facts don't add up to the conclusion they have reached? All that matters is that they can pat each other on the back for their shared enlightenment while sharing an absolute contempt and hatred for anyone who opposes their point of view.

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In what way are we who do not want war demonstrating against law enforcement and shouting encouragement to the thugs? The analogy does not stand up. We have agreed to, and most people abide by, the police that we have empowered to protect us and to keep public order. But most civilized people are against the misuse and abuse of police power and will stand up to resist it. These people are not encouraging the thugs; they are discouraging inappropriate use of force by over-eager policemen.

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Just a reality check here; Lockheed Martin stock (symbol: LMT) peaked a bit above $70 in June of '02, and has been trending strongly downward since, trading currently in the low $40s. The DFI, or Defense Industry Index, is down roughly 50% over the past year. There has been no "Boom" in Defense Spending.

timber.

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tres, that statement is so inflammatory and so blatantly untrue that it does not deserve an answer.

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Kara

I think you have added another premise which wasn't in my analogy which changes the interpretation ---- just as C.I. was assuming in his interpretation.

I believe that article about the perceptions of the " Arab Street" regarding the western demonstrations against the war proves my point.
Demonstrating against "something" never allows full disclosure of the premises therefore faulty conclusions are drawn.

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.......aroma therapy cedar bough scent wafts gently over the thread...participants' wrinkles and worry lines slowly smooth over....

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and anyone who disagrees hates america, loves saddam.

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Most of the participants take considerable care in expressing their opinions and stating their positions but yet are willing to sacrifice all of that carefull consideration to the will of the mob (demonstrations). This to me is the most dangerous form of expression. Do any of you really want to become a member of a mob which can explode out of control just as some members of this forum tend to do.

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Dys

For someone who detests the "either/or" position you seem willing to use it quite often.

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Noticing one of the firecrackers criticizing the fireworks display is heartwarming and encouraging. There may be little hope for amicable accommodation among the politicians and diplomats, but at least the participants on this thread seem to be making an effort to be unobnoxious. :wink:

timber

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perc

A large group of folks protesting isn't a 'mob'. That word means quite a different thing, you naughty fellow.

But I think more important is your notion that any expression of view perhaps ought to be considered 'dangerous'. I understand that you tie these two together, and suggest the unrelective group thinking or actions of a real mob is evidenced in marches wuch as occured world wide several weeks ago. But that is a very inaccurate portrayal of what went on.

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I'm really tired of "my way or else" posts. You know who you are. Too often your contributions are not original and substantive but more like those of dogs who bark at every noise in the street. This style of discussion resembles too closely the one which brought about the downfall of Abuzz.

I hope you will try to develop a little more flexibility and respect for the opinions of others. If you ALWAYS disagree with a number of us, if you've ALREADY expressed your disagreement more than once, the best thing to do is let our posts pass by without further challenge. That way I think we might save this (endlessly interesting!) thread from escalating rudeness and personal attacks.

That said, I'm listening now to Sy Hersh being interviewed (about his story on Perle) on the Diane Rehm show (WAMU.org, available on audio later). Some interesting revelations... and challenges to Hersh's assertions, and one man who just called in from Cleveland with a link between Perle, Kashoggi and the bin Ladens, and BCCI. Am taping.

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Blatham

Before I can answer you might be so kind as to define "unrelective" for me

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