The US, UN & Iraq II

dyslexia wrote:

if you go by what Lola wrote you will get a one-sided view, hers
if you go by what Tres wrote you will get a one-sided view, his

I'm sorry, Dys, whose point of view am I supposed to offer, yours?

Of course, the important issue your little aside ignores is that lola and I can't both be right. One of our "one-sided" views is not accurate, and one is. Now, it seems to me that if lola is right, then this doesn't exist:

Supply shortage in Iraq hospitals

Be sure to check out the Audio Slide Show: Wounded civilians in Nasiriya. This is the kind of coverage that lola suggests isn't being shown by American media. My point was that I have seen this kind of coverage, and I would hazard a guess that any honest players out their who have watched the coverage of this war have seen the good, the bad and the ugly, as have I.

By the way, Dys, care to share your perception of the coverage?

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"By the way, Dys, care to share your perception of the coverage?"

aside from being upclose and personal all news all the time live in your face, its about the same its always been. no better-no worse. but of course thats my one-sided view.

Quote:

"I'm sorry, Dys, whose point of view am I supposed to offer, yours?"

once again i offfered an observation that what anyone views is coloured by their own bias, including yours and mine. once again i offered a neutral observation crticizing no one. once again your personal sarcasm degrades the topic.

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Steve, I may not agree with your point of view, but I appreciate the style with which you express it. You had me chuckling even while I was shaking my head in disagreement.

TW Kind of you thanks

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Now, now, kids ... mind the sticks.

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The suspicious vehicle externally resembles the sort of truck common to the command and support elements of mobile missile batteries, and as such would be unremarkable . It also would be unlikey to have come under UN scrutiny, as it would have been not only "Milirtarily Sensitive" but deployed with an in-field active duty unit well away from the site of any potential inspection. There are indications this vehicle is not the only one of its variant.

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The US forces try hard to find at least a tiny smoking gun, and timber is here reporting every rumour about it.
(I'm still waiting for some results of all the up to now done examinations.)

I honestly think that it may not make that much difference in the way the world perceives the justification for the war, if there really is one "gun" or not.
I strongly believe, however, that even if large amounts of these weapons were found, the public in Europe would question whether the finds were true or simply planted evidence.

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dyslexia wrote:

Quote:
"By the way, Dys, care to share your perception of the coverage?"

aside from being upclose and personal all news all the time live in your face, its about the same its always been. no better-no worse. but of course thats my one-sided view.

I should have been more specific. Do you agree with lola's impression that the American media are focusing on the positive aspects of the war and not showing negative scenes. (Specifically, she wrote "My other impression from the coverage I've been able to watch is that we see no images or interviews with angry or unhappy Iraqis.") Does her impression--which nimh seemed to be taking literally and as a matter of fact--match up with what you have seen? Perhaps it does--I do not know what you have seen.

I assume that people who are paying attention to the reporting on this have probably seen some of the same things I have seen, and I assume that since I have seen both flavors of reporting that others would likely have seen the same. These assumptions could be wrong. lola may actually not have seen anything but happy, pro-American reporting. How would I know? What I do know, and conveyed to nimh, is that her "impression" does not jibe with the reality I have witnessed.

Since you are another witness, I'm interested to know what you have seen. Okay?

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actually tres i have watched nearly none of the video-media coverage. i don't regard any of it to be informationally valid, its only purpose is to feed the viewers images that keep/increase their advertising base. i did see the "toppling of the Saddam statue" covered gloriously by all the media and listened to the BBC report that the "throngs of people" amounted to a few hundred, not seen by the Iraqi masses as the t.v. broadcasting system was non operational at the time, rendering it "media event" for the USA home audience. as in all things "a man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest". This toppling of Saddam video may indeed reflect the mood of Iraq or it may, like a film clip of a KKK meeting would misrepresent America seriously distorting the reality.

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"a man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest". - I side with Lola

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dyslexia wrote:

actually tres i have watched nearly none of the video-media coverage. i don't regard any of it to be informationally valid, its only purpose is to feed the viewers images that keep/increase their advertising base. i did see the "toppling of the Saddam statue" covered gloriously by all the media and listened to the BBC report that the "throngs of people" amounted to a few hundred, not seen by the Iraqi masses as the t.v. broadcasting system was non operational at the time, rendering it "media event" for the USA home audience. as in all things "a man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest". This toppling of Saddam video may indeed reflect the mood of Iraq or it may, like a film clip of a KKK meeting would misrepresent America seriously distorting the reality.

I did not notice anyone in this discussion claiming that this one video clip reflected the mood of Iraq. I do recall lola claiming that none of the coverage showed the negative side of the war, and I do recall proving that her impression did not match up with the facts.

I also must admit to being a bit puzzled at your stepping into an exchange regarding the makeup of media coverage of which you now admit having little or no personal knowledge. Seems to me that if you haven't been watching it you wouldn't have anything on which to base an opinion.

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ok i guess i thought you asked my opinion, perhaps i misread your question.

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dyslexia wrote:

ok i guess i thought you asked my opinion, perhaps i misread your question.

Yes, Dys, I asked you to clarify your opinion AFTER you decided to offer it. Obviously my mistake. Embarrassed

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About media coverage perceptions outside America, I'm happy to comply with the data of my country, Tres. Not personal opinion.

National poll in Mexico about war and journalism, march 29:

Do you think war information transmited by Mexican television is impartial or favors one of the parties in conflict? Who does it favor?

Impartial 69%
Favors US-GB 19%
Favors Iraq 2%
dk/nr 8%

Do you think war information transmited by American television is impartial or favors one of the parties in conflict? Who does it favor?*

Impartial 38%
Favors US-GB 57%
Favors Iraq 0%
dk/nr 5%

*question asked to the 44% of the population with access, via border, cable or satellite, to American TV stations

Do you think TV should transmit all kinds of war images, or should it not transmit images that are too strong?

Transmit everything 40%
Not strong images 55%
dk/nr 5%

Do you think television should transmit images of prisoners of war or should it censor them, according to international treatises on human rights?

Transmit them 46%
Censor them 49%
dk/nr 5%

Do you think freedom of expression should be respected or should be limited in cases of war?

Should be respected 80%
Should be limited 15%
dk/nr 5%

---------

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Quote:

U.S. tries to seal Iraqi border with Syria
Long frontier in barren desert is mostly unfenced

CAMP AS SAYLIYAH, Qatar (AP) - U.S. air strikes pounded Iraqi positions near Syria today, as special forces troops monitored the porous frontier to prevent Iraqi troops from escaping and more fighters from entering Iraq, U.S. officials said ..

... In addition, Syrian fighters have turned up on the Iraqi battlefield and other Arab fighters have crossed into Iraq via Syria to attack U.S. and British forces.

On Thursday, it appeared some were returning the way they came: a correspondent for the al-Jazeera satellite television station at the Syrian-Iraq border said he had met Palestinian and Syrian volunteer fighters at the border who had abandoned their positions in Mosul and were returning home.

Link to Article

There are rumors of "Significant surrender developments underway" involving large numbers of Iraqi Regular Army units in the Mosul-Kirkuk region. Many Iraqis taken into custody in the area over the past 24 hours were unaware of "The Fall of Baghdad". Focus continues to sharpen on Tikrit. There is much expectation of a vicious, "Last Stand" battle, which if it occurs, likely will be conducted with a bit less restraint than Coalition Forces have so far demonstrated. No one can deny that neither resistance nor surrender rumors have been uniformly borne out by ensuing events.

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Now, tres, I've been away, but I did not say that. (that there was no media coverage of negative events) So you disproven something (if you did) that had not been claimed.

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Quote:

"a man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest".

BillW, isn't that from S & G's "The Boxer?" Or from another S & G?

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ok, so I looked back and I did say that, but I didn't mean it. We can change my "no" to "very little" compared to the amount of propaganda being broadcast hourly.

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Asherman

Nor do I think the US is the moral equivalent of Hitlerian Germany or Stalanist Russia, nor close.

But we don't have to go nearly so extreme as those examples to warrant both concern and persistent criticism. We don't have to find a duplicate of Hitler in Rumsfeld or of Goebbels in Carl Rove to start yelling 'you buggers are going wrong!'. Prevention of such extremes is the point.

In my set of chaotic notions about matters political, I hold that the first mistake we might make, as citizens, is to assume that what happened in those places is impossible in our own community, that we are in some manner so special or gifted or blessed of god that we don't have to worry about it. That's hubris, and it is a deep danger. The Brits had it, the Romans had it, and the US has too much of it also.

It's been argued more than a few times here that if any country is going to be number one in the world, the US is a better choice than others. But it is Americans who make that argument. We all love the cultures and places where we grew up, it is natural to do so. But when we take the next step, and say we ARE BETTER than the others, then warrant for empire and subjugation is granted.

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BLatham said:

Quote:

In my set of chaotic notions about matters political, I hold that the first mistake we might make, as citizens, is to assume that what happened in those places is impossible in our own community, that we are in some manner so special or gifted or blessed of god that we don\'t have to worry about it. That\'s hubris, and it is a deep danger.

I have this same fear. We know all, see all, move all. Do we know enough to be gods?

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