Blatham, you say
Quote:It isn't that timber's goals and values are wrong. The problem is that those are not the goals driving this adventure in Iraq...
Any reason will do, so long as it obscures the truth.
Gelisgesti and all, try news.google.com for up to the minute news information from multiple sources.
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timber, I find war to be uncivilized and many Bush tactics pluse existing US policy to be the same.
With that said, IMHO, the western civilization, and those that adhere to it, has the most civilized society know to Earth. That doesn't mean that other schemas could not be developed. I think Hinduism far exceeds the Judeo-Christian civilization, there just are far too many people to be administered.
blatham wrote:Unless, of course, we shove their platitudes down their throats and make it so evidently politically costly for them to continue their deceits and policies that they actually do what they pretend.
That's about the only option I see.
littlek and Kara, As for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, I started out with my support for the Palestinians, because Israel keeps expanding their settlements on Palestinian properties, and they do so with great military force. The only defense the Palestinians have are rocks and small arms. The most effective weapon they have is suicide bombings of innocent Israelis. However, watching the standoff for peace between the two, it gets rather frustrating to see that A) the US completely ignores this crisis, B) Israel keeps extending the carrot, but at the same time also keep expanding their settlements, and C) the Palestinians refuse to go to the negotiation table, and continues their suicide bombings to kill innocent Israelis. I have concluded after all these months and years that they are both wrong. However, when observing this crisis from the outside, I must say that the Israelis win the ethics battle by a hair, because they do no purposefully target innocent Palestinians. I have never approved our government's biased support of Israel that lessens the Palestinians any hope of a fair deal or independence. I can understand the angst all Arabs have for the US. It seems to me that our American politicians are for some unknown reason beholding to the Jewish propeganda of democracy. c.i.
As somebody has pointed out in the forum, we don't have democracy in this country. Why are we so interested in forcing other countries to our style of democracy? c.i.
ci
You make some good points, and I think its entirely appropriate to bring Israel into this thread. The security of Israel (actually the furtherance of Israeli interests) is the second most important driver for this war.
steve
You asked earlier regarding guides' address to personally directed remarks. Really, that is answered in the Politics Guidelines
http://able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2594
But the concern is particularly related to the irrelevancy and unpleasant noise of personal derogations, and our wish to forward careful and thoughtful debate of issues. PM me if you want to talk about this.
ok, but I just thought you and Timber were going about your duties with excessive zeal lately.
cutting off a wild fire before it can be whipped by the winds of discontent - when the barking gets too loud, there's is a name and that is Abuzzard.
Many thanks to the guides and moderators!
While the war is going to the final days, Europeans are still opposing it.
I personally have had great respect towards the Spanish judge Baltasar Garzon, as he was one of the first to act against terrorists in Spain.
Now, I like him even more:
Quote:Several thousand people have gathered for an open-air concert in the centre of Madrid, in the latest of a series of protests against the Spanish Government's support for the war in Iraq.
Around 20 Spanish artists are expected to perform at the event, which is also being attended by public figures such as the prominent anti-terrorist judge Baltasar Garzon.
Mr Garzon criticised the government position, which it has held to despite polls showing opposition to the war running at about 90%.
He said the war was an "act of madness", declaring the UN was being "destroyed by thousands of bombs and missiles launched through an arbitrary, unilateral decision".
Mr Garzon, who is best known for his attempts to bring former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet to trial in Spain and for targeting Basque separatists, is said to rarely speak in public.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2922719.stm
Cic -- Your post about Israel and Palestine struck home. My sympathies have been with the Palestinians and continue to be so, but I'm glad to have quit the either/or category. I don't like Israel, but I believe it sets a really bad example to encourage a anything but a shared territory. Israel has a lot of concessions to make. And the US should get its butt outta there!
Will anyone else be as glad as I am when we no longer hear the cliched and unconscionable news reports (as we seem to every day) that the "full force of the American military met with sporadic fighting"?
Yeah, Walter, I'm a Garzon fan too. Very apt description of the destruction of the UN -- and much closer to the truth than many would admit. I'd venture to say that the main target was always international institutions -- and I think NATO will also be an intended victim. Much more efficient for us to go it alone. We've got the brawn after all. Now... brains...?
Who is "brains", Tartin? :wink:
Walter
Thank you very much indeed for the Garzon link. I like him now too.
Tartarin
I know what you mean. These media twits so commonly function as unthinking stenographers passing on the write-by-numbers cliches handed to them from 'authority'.
Don't think we've got any, Walter. Lotsa brawn ruled little teensy pinheads? (Imagine W's avatar, please.)
...With big pointy ears on his pinhead!
And a big "S" on his shirt (for Satan)!
BillW, Actually it's the big "D" like in Devil. c.i.
Here's another doozy, sent to me by a friend in Oz. c.i.
**********************************************
WHITE HOUSE, WHITE GOD
"Contact President Bush and politely express your opposition to Islamic prayer services at the White House. Also, be sure to thank Franklin Graham for his faithfulness to Christ in the face of criticism." -- The Family Policy Network website, following criticism of the Reverend Franklin Graham, who referred to Islam as being "wicked, violent, and not of the same God". Rev. Graham, son of Billy Graham, delivered the invocation in 2001 at the inauguration of George W. Bush in 2001.
http://www.familypolicy.net/nf/franklin-11-20-01.shtml
