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The World Wide Web Party?

 
 
Foxfyre
 
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 09:09 am
It would take somebody as interesting and compelling as a Ross Perot to pull it off, but I am seeing more and more media underground speculation that we may see another viable third party candidate in 2008. And the conventional wisdom is that it will be the internet that will make it possible. (I continue to think that if Perot hadn't wigged out at the eleventh hour, he had a good chance of winning in 1992.

What do you think? Is it time to break the power of the GOP and Democrat Party? Would a viable third party would be a good thing? Or not?

Ronald Brownstein:
Washington Outlook
Internet, Polarized Politics Create an Opening for a Third Party
The Internet is a leveling force. It diffuses power and empowers new competitors to challenge old arrangements.

Elite newspapers and magazines, for instance, dominate their markets partly because it costs so much to build conventional hard-copy competitors. But the Internet has allowed thousands of new voices to find audiences at little cost for a panoramic assortment of news and opinions in Web logs and online magazines.

Some of the same effect is already evident in politics. Once it took years of heavy spending on direct mail and other recruitment methods to build a national membership organization; MoveOn.org, the online liberal advocacy group, acquired half a million names ?- with virtually no investment ?- just months after posting an Internet petition opposing President Clinton's impeachment in 1998.

MoveOn, and groups like it on the left and right, chisel at the power of the major political parties by providing an alternative source of campaign funds and volunteers. But otherwise, the two parties that have defined American political life since the 1850s have been largely immune from the centrifugal current of the Internet era.

Joe Trippi, a principal architect of Howard Dean's breakthrough Internet strategy in the 2004 Democratic presidential campaign, is one of many analysts who believe that may soon change. The Internet, he says, could ignite a serious third-party presidential bid in 2008.

"This is a very disruptive technology," says Trippi. "And it is going to be very destabilizing to the political establishment of both parties."

The Internet could allow an independent candidate to more easily identify an audience and financial base, just as it has allowed blogs like the liberal Daily Kos or conservative InstaPundit to find a community of like-minded readers. More precisely, the Internet has allowed readers to find those blogs. And because the audience mostly finds the product, rather than the other way around, the cost of entering the market is radically reduced.

Trippi believes an independent presidential candidate who struck a chord could organize support through the Internet just as inexpensively. "Somebody could come along and raise $200 million and have 600,000 people on the streets working for them without any party structure in the blink of an eye," he says.

It might not be quite that simple. But the two parties are pursuing strategies that create an opening in the center of the electorate, even as the Internet makes it easier for a new competitor to fill it.

Influenced partly by Ross Perot's strong showing in the 1992 presidential race, Clinton argued that capturing the middle was the key to electoral success. After an initial lurch left, Clinton doggedly pursued centrist voters by breaking from liberal orthodoxy on welfare, trade, a balanced budget and other issues.

President Bush, by contrast, has been much more willing to risk alienating voters in the center to advance ideas that energize his base. Exit polls showed that Bush lost moderate and independent voters in November's election. But he won reelection largely by vastly increasing turnout among Republicans and conservatives.

More and more Democrats see their future in Bush's model, not Clinton's. Trippi says Clinton's conviction that elections are won mostly by converting swing voters "is obsolete." Democrats, Trippi argues, are more likely to win back the White House by increasing turnout among their own supporters with a pointedly partisan message, as Bush did.

It's not entirely surprising for Trippi, who's identified with the party's left, to reach such a conclusion. But even centrist voices like Simon Rosenberg, founder of the New Democrat Network, are talking in similar terms. Democratic centrists believe that "if you win independents and moderates, you win the presidential election," Rosenberg says. But with Bush's success in 2004, he says, "that has been rejected for all time."

This argument among Democrats is far from settled. But a tilt in Trippi's direction is evident in the surprisingly unified Democratic congressional opposition to Bush's priorities. The result is that both parties are offering policies and messages aimed primarily at their core supporters.

Even strategists such as Trippi who support that approach acknowledge it could have a cost. By ceding the center, it might leave both parties vulnerable to a new force.

"We are now moving toward a very dangerous place for both parties," he says. "It is becoming much more possible for an independent or third party to emerge because they are leaving so much space in the middle."

The hurdles for an independent presidential candidate remain formidable. Even one that attracted a competitive share of the popular vote might have trouble winning many electoral college votes; the strongest candidate could still face the syndrome of finishing second almost everywhere, trailing Republicans in the red states and Democrats in the blue. To have any chance, an independent would need to nearly run the table in battleground states ?- like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania ?- that don't tilt decisively to either side.

Yet if the two parties continue on their current trajectories, the backdrop for the 2008 election could be massive federal budget deficits, gridlock on problems like controlling healthcare costs, furious fights over ethics and poisonous clashes over social issues and Supreme Court appointments. A lackluster economy that's squeezing the middle-class seems a reasonable possibility too.

In such an environment, imagine the options available to Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) if he doesn't win the 2008 Republican nomination, and former Democratic Sen. Bob Kerrey of Nebraska, now that he's dropped his flirtation with running for mayor of New York. If the two Vietnam veterans joined for an all-maverick independent ticket, they might inspire a gold rush of online support ?- and make the two national parties the latest example of the Internet's ability to threaten seemingly impregnable institutions.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-outlook25apr25,1,6684877.column?coll=la-headlines-politics
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 10:43 am
Not sure. Even with a basic 2 party system, it is difficult for a candidate to receive a majority of votes. With a strong 3rd party candidte, the winner may receive only 34% of the vote to win the election.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 02:08 pm
That is precisely what happened in 1992. Clinton won with 43% of the vote but nevertheless had a reasonably successful presidency.

I think a viable 3-party system might produce that kind of results consistently. But would that be such a bad thing? Instead of two-party catfights across the aisle in Congress, the parties would have to consider incoming from two fronts and maybe it would engender more cooperation and less polarizing stances. I don't know. I'm still thinking this through.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 02:15 pm
Thanks both to more than two parties, and the electoral college, there have been minority presidents in our history--Lincoln's election being the most notorious in terms of several candidate running.

That line about the two party system having served us well made me laugh. It reads as though having only two viable political parties were a part of the people's intent, rather than the shell game foisted off on us for more than a century now by the two parties in question.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 09:35 pm
Setanta wrote:
Thanks both to more than two parties, and the electoral college, there have been minority presidents in our history--Lincoln's election being the most notorious in terms of several candidate running.

That line about the two party system having served us well made me laugh. It reads as though having only two viable political parties were a part of the people's intent, rather than the shell game foisted off on us for more than a century now by the two parties in question.


It it really the fault of the 2 parties that most of the people who run against them have ideas that seem to fall outside of the main stream?
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 09:41 pm
Even when the Dems ran separate candidates in 1860 (Douglas for the North and Breckenridge for the South, I think), Lincoln won both the popular vote and the electoral college.

I'd be up for a replay of that in '08 Smile
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 09:48 pm
It seems that in the last several elections, it is the most extreme of the left who wins the nomination and the least extreme of the right, or in other words, our standard bearers for the GOP are not very conservative among conservatives. George Bush and Ah..nold certainly aren't. John McCain isn't, though all do hold some conservative views and none could be said to be leftish.

What would a third party accomplish? I'm honestly not sure. I just rmember how unique and interesting Ross Perot was when he first started campaigning. We need somebody like that to keep the others honest I think. Hopefully the next viable third party candidate won't be a nut case.
0 Replies
 
dora17
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 10:39 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Instead of two-party catfights across the aisle in Congress, the parties would have to consider incoming from two fronts and maybe it would engender more cooperation and less polarizing stances. I don't know. I'm still thinking this through.


I think that is a great point. Seems like it would have to eliminate at least some of the knee-jerk opposition that both parties engage in... we'd get to hear more than two sides to issues. maybe it would be easier for politicians to support ideas rather than just their party. i don't think we'll see this any time soon though...

<sigh>
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 07:55 am
It works in real life that way I think. Two points of view can produce a shouting match on a committee or in a board meeting. But add more alternatives, and the discussion is generally more constructive.

Even here on A2K, if you have one person or a small minority trying to make a point, the opposition tends to gang up on that person and it can get nasty very quickly as they reinforce each other and the most stupid of the stupid feel brave enough to chime in. But if you have more equal support for each side, the discussion is usually modified, though it can still get out of hand. But if you have three or four different ponts of view expressed, the discussion can sometimes actually become constructive.

It's pure theory of course, but I think the same phenomenon could occur in Congress.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 08:00 am
Baldimo wrote:
It it really the fault of the 2 parties that most of the people who run against them have ideas that seem to fall outside of the main stream?


Quite apart from being a completely subjective judgment on your part, this statement does not describe in the least what third and fourth party candidates have represented in American history. Keep in mind, Abraham Lincoln was a third party candidate, who only got elected because Stephen Douglas and John Breckenridge split the Democratic Party.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 08:03 am
JustWonders wrote:
Even when the Dems ran separate candidates in 1860 (Douglas for the North and Breckenridge for the South, I think), Lincoln won both the popular vote and the electoral college.

I'd be up for a replay of that in '08 Smile


Lincoln won more of the popular vote than either Douglas or Breckenridge--however, he did not win a majority of the popular vote, he simply won a majority in the "winner take all" electoral college. The whole point of that passage in history is that the Republicans did not win so much as a fatal split in the Democrats lead them to lose. If you count all of the people in 1860 who voted for Douglas and Breckenridge, which is to say, traditional Democratic voters, it is pretty obvious that Lincoln would have been buried in a land slide if the Democrats had not split.
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