1
   

Rumsfeld: 'Iraq - we have no EXIT policy'

 
 
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 07:51 pm
Quote:
The U.S. has no exit strategy or precise timetable for withdrawing its forces from Iraq and a pull- out depends on the readiness of the Iraqi Security Forces, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said.

Asked at a meeting with U.S. soldiers to outline the U.S.'s exit strategy, Rumsfeld said, ``we don't have an exit strategy, we have a victory strategy.'' He defined victory as the moment when Iraq is on the path to becoming a democratic state free of terrorism, according to a pooled broadcast report.

source
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 10,490 • Replies: 222
No top replies

 
Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 08:03 pm
Quote:
The defense secretary, whose visit wasn't disclosed until his arrival for security reasons, praised U.S. soldiers and told them that they'll earn their place in history for fighting ``a war where victory depends not only on military successes but on reconstruction and civil affairs.''


Well he couldn't say it was a catastrophic success to rid the nation of WMDs, or the threat of Saddam starting WW3, or to democratise the Middle East, or to stop terrorism, or because the Bush Administration believes in the 'mission of the United Nations', to protect Iraqis from agression or torture or abuse or civil war or starvation, or to even bring down the cost of oil - BECAUSE IT FRIGGIN' DIDN'T!!
0 Replies
 
Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 08:09 pm
Quote:
Rumsfeld's ninth visit to Iraq since the 2003 invasion came as the U.S. military hopes to cut troop numbers there next year, as long as Iraqi security forces continue to improve.



Wonder if he remember's his first visit????

http://www.leftonline.org/images/rummysaddam.jpg
"Greetings from President Reagan. He loves your work.
He's hidden a billion dollars in aid to your regime as long
as you promise to only gas Iranians. How are you for weapons,
anthrax and precursors for the production of WMDs
?"
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 08:19 pm
Mr Stillwater wrote:
Quote:
The defense secretary, whose visit wasn't disclosed until his arrival for security reasons, praised U.S. soldiers and told them that they'll earn their place in history for fighting ``a war where victory depends not only on military successes but on reconstruction and civil affairs.''


Well he couldn't say it was a catastrophic success to rid the nation of WMDs, or the threat of Saddam starting WW3, or to democratise the Middle East, or to stop terrorism, or because the Bush Administration believes in the 'mission of the United Nations', to protect Iraqis from agression or torture or abuse or civil war or starvation, or to even bring down the cost of oil - BECAUSE IT FRIGGIN' DIDN'T!!


I find that I must agree with every word you said here. But, then again it is easy for us since we are removed from it.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 08:49 pm
Must be drivin' some folks just absolutely nuts things over there ain't goin' bad at all - goin' so "not so bad" in fact, that even the media has been forced to notice, begrudgingly acknowledge it, that the surroundin' nations' populaces have noticed, reactin' bigtime, The Arab Street enthusiastically endorsin' and lobbyin' for their own democratization as opposed to US pullout, and that no "Cut-and-Run" plan is in place or even contemplated. Damned shame, from some points of view.

I can understand that. Pretty similar to the way some folks were feelin' after the national elections in Oz and the US last year. And for pretty much the same reasons. Doesn't look too good for them folk's Canadian or UK kindred either, the way things seem to be goin' elsewhere. We'll see.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 09:02 pm
Things are interesting in Canada right now.
I wouldn't count anyone out.

The federal Conservatives attempt to boot the same sex legislation failed today.

At the same time that their popularity is growing in some areas, they are losing strength in others. The provincial conservatives in the biggest voting blocks of provinces are splitting from the federal conservatives. Interesting times.

Maybe it's time for an actual left of centre federal government here. It happened in a similar situation provincially about a decade ago. Two of the right of centre parties thought they were fighting it out. They should have paid more attention to what was actually going on.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 09:04 pm
In any case, admitting that there the U.S. has no exit strategy for Iraq is going to distress a few parents, and others who love people who they didn't think would be staying in Iraq/going to Iraq.

That always has an effect on voting patterns.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 09:10 pm
Quote:
Remember when Republicans demanded that Clinton set an "exit strategy" for American troops to leave the Balkans? Well, the U.S. occupation of Iraq looks open-ended.

Bush's pledge to avoid nation building came during a debate with Democrat Al Gore at Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem, N.C., on Oct. 11, 2000. It was their second debate of the election campaign.

At that debate Bush recalled that the U.S. humanitarian mission in Somalia -- begun by his father, President George H.W. Bush -- had "changed into a nation-building mission, and that's where the mission went wrong."

He was referring to the deaths of 18 U.S. Army rangers who were killed in Mogadishu on Oct. 3-4, 1993, after a gun battle. U.S. forces were soon withdrawn from Somalia.

"The mission was changed, and as a result, our nation paid a price," Bush continued. "And so I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation building."

Bush declared that it was up to those who live in the liberated lands to rebuild them.

He added the Bush administration, if he was elected, would "absolutely not" indulge in nation planning. And so we launch another round of nation building in Iraq, even as the Bush administration struggles to rebuild a nation in Afghanistan.

Maybe he has forgotten, but Bush also pledged during the same debate to be "humble" in his foreign policy and not appear to be throwing our superpower weight around.

As the U.S. attack on Iraq shows, it's difficult being humble. When the United States could not get its way before the U.N. Security Council, Bush barged ahead on his own, careful to at least pay lip service to British Prime Minister Tony Blair so that the White House could always been seen to be acting in the name of a "coalition," such as it was.

No matter how the president's foreign policy is viewed by Americans or others around the world, the word "humble" couldn't possibly fit.

Back in 2000, when he was seeking office, it was a different Bush. During the Wake Forest debate, Bush declared: "It really depends upon how our nation conducts its foreign policy. If we're an arrogant nation, they'll resent us. If we're a humble nation, they'll respect us."

Those sound like words to live by.


http://www.thebostonchannel.com/helenthomas/2117601/detail.html
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 09:16 pm
ehBeth wrote:
In any case, admitting that there the U.S. has no exit strategy for Iraq is going to distress a few parents, and others who love people who they didn't think would be staying in Iraq/going to Iraq.

That always has an effect on voting patterns.


So do troop-strength reductions and shortened tours-of-duty in troublespots - as have been announced and are bein' implemented. So do sharply declinin' US casualties, as are bein' experienced. This time next year will see the first real stirrin's of the '06 election circus, and I anticpate Iraq will be a far smaller factor than some might wish. Democratic reform and equitable, popular self rule might just take hold over there, even spred into and beyond the region - wouldn't that be terrible?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 09:21 pm
We don't have a lot of posters here who have young family members in the military.

Another forum I frequent does - the mood in that crowd, which is primarily Republican and with sons/husbands who've been told to get ready to go to Iraq, is interesting. The anti-U.S. government spewing there has become so vehement that I've put people on 'ignore'. Which is big for me.

Watching things change there in the past two years has been fascinating.

~~~~~

The spreading of democracy would be terrible? I guess if that's your opinion, timber, you can keep it.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 09:25 pm
Oh, we shall see for sure. I'm not worried by what I expect to see, though. And I know some folks who have freinds and family in Iraq and Afghanistan. One of those folks I know is usin' my keyboard as I type.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 09:26 pm
I know that, timber.
And you also know what I am saying.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 09:39 pm
I know what you're sayin' ehBeth - and I don't doubt for a moment you're sincere and that you have basis for sayin' what you do. I do not, however, share your misgivin's. Which is cool by me - pretty borin' if everyone is always pullin' the same oar; just go in circles that way.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 11:08 pm
ehBeth wrote:
In any case, admitting that there the U.S. has no exit strategy for Iraq is going to distress a few parents, and others who love people who they didn't think would be staying in Iraq/going to Iraq.

That always has an effect on voting patterns.

Any country which fights wars with the primary goal of limiting their duration and difficulty is probably not destined to play much of a role in future history.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 11:39 pm
Any country that starts a war under false pretenses is probably destined to not play much of a role in future history. Afterall, we just don't have the military might or the troops to take over the world.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 11:41 pm
And those voting patterns ehBeth mentions are real.

I guess that means more Diebold machines are coming to your neighborhood...
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2005 11:59 pm
You betchya Dookie; the US is the font of global evil, and the Dems wuz robbed - twice, three times if count 2002, and four if ya toss in The Governator. Don't you fergit that, don't let nobody tell ya no different, and be sure ya shout it out to everybody you see.

We're countin' on ya.
0 Replies
 
Fedral
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Apr, 2005 04:03 am
squinney wrote:

"The mission was changed, and as a result, our nation paid a price," Bush continued. "And so I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation building."

Bush declared that it was up to those who live in the liberated lands to rebuild them.

He added the Bush administration, if he was elected, would "absolutely not" indulge in nation planning. And so we launch another round of nation building in Iraq, even as the Bush administration struggles to rebuild a nation in Afghanistan.

Maybe he has forgotten, but Bush also pledged during the same debate to be "humble" in his foreign policy and not appear to be throwing our superpower weight around.

As the U.S. attack on Iraq shows, it's difficult being humble. When the United States could not get its way before the U.N. Security Council, Bush barged ahead on his own, careful to at least pay lip service to British Prime Minister Tony Blair so that the White House could always been seen to be acting in the name of a "coalition," such as it was.

No matter how the president's foreign policy is viewed by Americans or others around the world, the word "humble" couldn't possibly fit.

Back in 2000, when he was seeking office, it was a different Bush. During the Wake Forest debate, Bush declared: "It really depends upon how our nation conducts its foreign policy. If we're an arrogant nation, they'll resent us. If we're a humble nation, they'll respect us."

Those sound like words to live by.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/helenthomas/2117601/detail.html


Hmmm ... I wonder what could have happened AFTER the year 2000 to change his views?

Or I guess we should have humbly appologized to the terrorists for getting our buildings in the way of their hijacked planes?


As to a definitive 'exit time' we HAVE been given one, you just refuse to hear it so I will shout it....

WHEN WE ARE DONE!

You need to watch the movie 'The Agony and the Ecstacy' about the painting of the ceiling on the Sistine Chapel, for YEARS the Pope watched Michaelangelo paint the ceiling of his church and he always asked Michaelangelo ...
"When will you make and and of this?!"

To which Michaelangelo would shrug and reply:
"When I am done."
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Apr, 2005 05:47 am
Dookiestix wrote:
Any country that starts a war under false pretenses is probably destined to not play much of a role in future history. Afterall, we just don't have the military might or the troops to take over the world.

It wasn't false pretenses since Hussein had built WMD, had used them, had lied about them, and had concealed them from inspectors. The only thing at issue is how recently, not whether he had.

The intelligence organizations may have functioned in such a way as to produce the answer they already believed was true, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who reported a result he didn't believe to be true, and Bush undoubtedly believed it, as did Clinton, and many, many people. Indeed, had we not repeatedly made invasion sounds, Hussein might well still have the WMD. Any weapon powerful enough to obliterate a city is a real danger in the hands of a homicidal madman, so being concerned about it was pretty reasonable. Indeed, in the same situation in the future, aside from improvements in intelligence, we will do the same thing again, and the situation will certainly arise again many times.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Apr, 2005 07:36 am
This is a bit of an admitted change, though, isn't it? When the war started, we were told they would be in and out. Then later, we would leave when the Iraqi's (whoever we might choose to recognize as their representatives ) asked us to. All along we were planning and building permanent bases there. If Lebanon cannot achieve a true representative government so long as foreign troops occupy her soil, what makes it possible in Iraq?

How much harder would it have been to sell this war if they had been up front about the fact that we plan to stay for 10 to 20 years?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Rumsfeld: 'Iraq - we have no EXIT policy'
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 04/29/2025 at 10:24:00