12
   

Moderate Democrats (also liberals)

 
 
maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Tue 5 Feb, 2019 02:04 pm
@ehBeth,
The same system that Republicans would decimate, dismantle, or at least severely underfund.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 5 Feb, 2019 02:09 pm
I agree with all of Real Music's list except for #17 and the second half of #15. I suspect that most of us do agree with most of these items.

What makes you a "moderate" Democrat is your ability to identify when the Democratic party goes too far to the political extremes. The obvious question for anyone who calls themselves a "moderate" Democrat is on what points to you differ from the prevailing party ideology?

I agree with Democrats generally on most of the issues. I support immigrant rights (as defined by most Democrats), gun control, Medicare for all, progressive taxes... etc. etc

On the other hand, I feel the Democrats are extreme on woman's issues pushing far beyond equality. I feel the Democrats are failing to defend free speech; particularly in campuses and on the media. I also feel the Democrats are exaggerating the issue of religious rights... I support same sex marriage, but I feel as a society we can understand and support religious differences given the rapid the cultural change we have experienced.

I am not posting these too argue any of them. But, if you are a "moderate" you can't be in lockstep on every issue.

So Moderate Democrats, where do you differ from the party line?

0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  6  
Reply Tue 5 Feb, 2019 02:15 pm
I'm not a "moderate Democrat". But I'd have no problem voting for one.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Feb, 2019 02:42 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

I'm not a "moderate Democrat". But I'd have no problem voting for one.


Are there any moderate Democrats here... i.e. people who agree with the Democrats on most issues, but differ from the Democratic party line on an important issue or two? It seems our country has most divided up into two ideological camps with very few people who dare to venture out of their own camp.

Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 02:03 am
@chai2,
Quote:
every baby, regardless of how incompatable it is with life, is a miracle, a gift, has some sort of being infused with a special purpose.

In a religious humanist POV, yes I suppose. From my (depressingly atheistic) view point, each baby has unlimitted potential, in the sense that each can become another Einstein or Vivaldi. So I would replace ‘purpose’ by ‘potential’ but it’s a very similar idea.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 02:08 am
@maxdancona,
There is no such person as a ‘moderate democrat’. It’s a fiction, a ‘language soup illusion’, that is to say, words that don’t add up to a useful and coherent concept. An idea that doesn’t stand to scrutiny.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 05:39 am
@Olivier5,
I believe there are indeed many relatively moderate democrats, particularly on the issues currently being advanced by the new left zealots recently elected to the House of Representatives. The fact is these fairly radical (and in most cases, unrealizable) proposals have gotten a great deal of media attention and, perhaps in the wake of Hillary's defeat, have reawakened most of Bernie Sanders' supporters to his left wing agenda. However, the enthusiastic support for these programs is confined to a rather small minority of enthusiastic voters, and I suspect will fade over the coming year as the Democrat primaries, and the public debates over them.

Meanwhile the political leaders of the Party are enjoying the increased attention and watching to see how the political winds blow.
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 05:48 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
There is no such person as a ‘moderate democrat’.

Why would you assert such a thing? Many voters describe themselves that way. Hell, there were probably moderate Nazis.
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 06:06 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Are there any moderate Democrats here... i.e. people who agree with the Democrats on most issues, but differ from the Democratic party line on an important issue or two?

I find myself in "agreement" with the Democratic Party when its positions are contrasted with those of the Republicans and Trumpists. I see the choices available to me as rather limited and all falling short of my political ideal. I differ from the Dems on many issues but as no party advocates for my positions I don't object to voting for the lesser of two evils on the party level and against the worst individuals.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 06:14 am
@hightor,
Just because some people describe themselves this way doesn't mean they are all understanding the term in the same way.

In any human group, there are usually people in the middle, people on the right of the middle, and people on the left of the middle. Among Democrats, who is the "moderate" ones? Those in the middle? Those on the right of the party? Those of its left? When the Democratic party moves to the left, as it did after the last presidential elections, do the "moderate" become suddenly "immoderate" because the bulk of the party has moved away from them?

It's just a self-serving label saying: "I am the rational, thoughtful kind of democrat, while the others are irrational and extremists." A holier-than-you gimmick.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 06:17 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I believe there are indeed many relatively moderate democrats,

Key word is "relatively". Relatively to what you personally consider appropriate. It's all relative to one's personal opinion.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 06:34 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:

It's just a self-serving label saying: "I am the rational, thoughtful kind of democrat, while the others are irrational and extremists." A holier-than-you gimmick.


Have you seen those crazy screaming people in pink hats.... they are irrational extremists. The Democratic party today is pushing me out and making me uncomfortable.

I know that on the other side, the Trump people are making some traditional Republicans feel the same way about their party.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 06:40 am
@Olivier5,
My opinion is that the majority of Democrats in the Congress today occupy more or less the same component of the political spectrum they did four years ago.

The Bernie Sanders campaign awakened a small but vocal minority of the party to his left wing agenda, while the majority of the party stayed with their more conventional (but corrupt & hapless) candidate, Hillary. However none of Bernie's agenda as yet has been put to the legislative test or appears to be enactable now, even within the current Democrat delegation. The recent Congressional election put a handful of radical left wing representatives into the spotlight, and they are getting a lot of attention now. Meanwhile a flock of contenders for the Presidency has emerged, each attempting to capture attention for themselves and validate their association with the new wave in the party. All this has created a stir which will be sorted out over the coming year. The Democrat platform which emerges is likely to be a bit to the left of the last one, but one that they believe will win them elections.
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 09:04 am
There are obvious variations in support for policies among Democrats.

By calling myself a moderate democrat I'm trying to distinguish myself from the people who call themselves progressives. If anyone has another term for this, then please share.

I laid out what my vision of moderation is relative to what I hear from progressives. For example, I think that incremental changes in a positive direction over many years is preferable to a 'throw out the entire system and remake it' approach that is advocated by progressives.

I'm not making up language; it's a distinction that progressives will tell you certainly exists. It's in many polls. Here is a poll trying to show an distinction.

I put myself in the light blue section. I agree with most all of the Democratic Party platform positions, however my approach to implementing them is more moderate than progressive. Additionally, I would not go as far as some progressives on some of the issues.

http://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/FT_17.03.16_generations_ideology_2016.png
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 09:13 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
The Democratic party today is pushing me out and making me uncomfortable.

Vote for another party that makes you feel comfortable, or less uncomfortable, then... The Dems are under no obligation to "moderate" -- whatever that would mean, and I don't think it means anything clear -- their views just to keep you comfortable.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 09:16 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
My opinion is that the majority of Democrats in the Congress today occupy more or less the same component of the political spectrum they did four years ago.

The party policy proposals have moved to the left following Bernie Sanders' uber-sucessful campaign, and this recent crop of congress members is also markedly more to the left than the party's position since Bill Clinton (who pretty much invented this "moderate democrat" thing).
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 09:18 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
The Democrat platform which emerges is likely to be a bit to the left of the last one, but one that they believe will win them elections.


Without winning elections of course, none of their policies could be implemented. And without enough support (super-majority in the Senate at least) their grandest policy changes (say the Bernie Medicare for All bill that would remake our current system for almost all Americans) would be watered down dramatically into something like expanding Obamacare subsidies and opening up medicare to more age groups and maybe putting some price controls on insurance company profit and drug prices.

Where I differ with progressives is that I view these compromises as positive steps in the right direction and progressives seem to view anything less than complete makeover as a complete failure.

They go as far as calling Democrats and Republicans exactly the same, which of course, is fanatical and insane.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 09:29 am
And being a moderate democrat doesn't mean that you HAVE to disagree with any of the overall goals the democratic party....it can also mean that you want the same goals but think there are different methods of achieving them.

For example, you can think like I do, that there should be less guns in America (a different moderate democrat may agree with me, or they may think guns in America are fine as they are right now).

Now, take a group of Democrats and you could get solutions such as ban all guns, or ban some guns, or increase taxes on guns, or restrict the number of guns someone can own, or increase waiting periods to get guns, or increase penalties for breaking gun ownership laws or crimes committed with a firearm, institute gun buyback programs, or any number of other changes that could reduce gun ownership.

Progressives would go further on this issue than a moderate democrat would....and in contrast a conservative republican who would eliminate almost all restrictions and would have an entirely different goal of expanding gun ownership.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  4  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 09:39 am
@maxdancona,
I am moderate in the sense that I can accept compromise for a little bit of good return. I am not as leftist as most of new Progressives today but I don't totally oppose them.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2019 10:00 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Vote for another party that makes you feel comfortable, or less uncomfortable, then... The Dems are under no obligation to "moderate" -- whatever that would mean, and I don't think it means anything clear -- their views just to keep you comfortable.


Why should I vote for another party?

1. The US is a two-party democracy. Like it or not, that is the reality. Voting for a third party is a wasted vote.

2. In most policy issues I side with the Democrats. When Democrats are in power, the country moves mostly in the direction I like (with exceptions). I have voted for exactly one Republican in my life... that would be Governor Baker of Massachusetts.

3. That being said... I felt disgusted with myself voting for Hillary. I would have felt at least as disgusted with myself had I not voted for Hillary. But, I sometimes wonder if there is a line over which I will not cross; the only way to influence the Democrats to select candidates that don't upset me is to refuse to vote for candidates that do.

I do admit my strong belief that things would be better now had Hillary won. But had Hillary won, the Clinton wing of the Democratic party would have become insufferable.
 

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