Is faith healing real?

Faith Healing
I know someone who was having their illness prayed for, they had terrible irritation all down their arm and it just went away right there, right then.

Their are frauds all over the world. Anybody who tries to make you PAY to be prayed for is a fraud. And anyone who suggests you don't also use medicine is an idiot. But the fact is that there have been some healings through prayer.

Seeker--

How do you know that the rash wouldn't have cleared up in the same time without prayer?

Noddy has a very good point there, Seeker; all that is fact is that some cures or remissions have occurred in situations which have involved prayer or other meditation. There is no factual evidence there is any connection whatsoever between prayer or meditation and cure or remission. None. Belief, no matter how sincerely held, and objectively verifiable, evidenced, incontravertible fact are two very different things. Believe it or not, thats a fact.

Timberlandko,

How exactly do you suggest one would obtain scientifically valid irrefutable evidence for something that is scientifically inexplicable?

Derevon, why might the absence of any scientifically valid evidence necessitate the assumption of miracle? That evidence does not exist proves only that evidence has not been discovered. That much evidence contrary to the efficacy of prayer or meditation in the matter of healing does exist, while there is none supportive of the proposition may not preclude the proposition, but it certainly argues more powerfully against the proposition than any claimed, but unevidenced, support offered for the proposition argues for it. "Faith", in the religious sense, is no different than superstition or its consanquinous companion, belief in magic.

The absence of scientific evidence does not necessitate a miracle, but that's not the point. The point is that arguments like the one you used (there is no evidence) are just futile, because scientific methodology can only be applied to that which is within the boundaries of science.

Then you go on claiming that there is evidence against the efficacy of prayer and meditation when it comes to healing, which is just plain absurd in my opinion. It is obvious that there can never be any form of evidence proving that such healing cannot take place, no more than one could prove that God does not exist.

If one sticks to facts alone, the only thing one can say for sure is that inexplicable healings involving religious activities have indeed occurred on numerous occasions. Anything beyond that is solely a matter of faith, since nothing that is allegedly outside the boundaries of science can possibly be proved or disproved by scientific means.

There ya go. As far as "Proof" goes, ya got "Beyond any doubt", ya got "Beyond reasonable doubt", and ya got "By preponderance of evidence". Of course in matters metaphysical the "Beyond any doubt" stage likely is gonna remain unachieveable either way. However, despite millenia of claim and effort, religion has failed to meet the qualifications of "Beyond reasonable doubt". That leaves "Preponderance of evidence", which leaves religion at a severe disadvantage.

Apart from that, there is the multiplicity of religions - each claimin' contradictorally it is or has "The Answer" to the exclusivity of and in primacy over all the rest - all too often to the point of hatred and bloodshed.

Then ya get to logic - and the only conclusion which may be drawn is that The Answer - if even there is such a thing - is as yet undetermined, but either way has no forensically valid support. The only validation for religion is found within religion. There is no independent, externally referrential, reproducible support for the proposition, while the counter argument is replete with such.

That adds up to 3 against, none for, in my book. It simply does not stand to reason that science, reason, and logic apply to all human experience with the exception of religion. By preponderance of evidence, I must conclude religion - of whatever flavor - is not The Answer, but rather that indications strongly suggest religion and its proponents fail to define, let alone understand or answer The Question.

I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that the Catholic Church has developed some very stringent rules for what and what does not constitute a miracle.

Agnostics and atheists are not the only ones who despise superstition.

A few years ago, when to be honest i was too small to remember there was a big sort of church movement up at Greenham: all laying on of hands and stuff. There was this one old lady from my church who had crippling arthritus: wheelchair and everything. She was up and completely back to normal after one of their prayer sessions.... very scary

But the sad thing was that 3 or 4 weeks later, after they left... she was back in her wheelchair

I think these kind of breakthroughs occur when your in a place of great fng shui.The Chinese would only build thier hospitals in good Feng Shui spots and it apparently makes a difference.

Reason is a useful tool in our daily lives, but it is not the universal solution to every question that many seem to believe it is. Reason requires information, and in situations where there is not enough such, its use is very limited. Religion is one such area; its validity can neither be proved, nor disproved, and therefore do these matters always come down to faith. Why then does not God unambiguously and universally manifest Himself so that there can be no doubt about His existence? This, I believe, is because faith and hope are essential ingredients in our spiritual lives. If we knew everything about spiritual matters for a fact, these two qualities would be meaningless.

I'm a spiritual healer, but not a faith healer. My client's don't need to have faith but preferably an open mind.

Do we have many healers on A2K?

Christian prayer includes meditation. In fact, certain types of prayer are simply meditation. Proponents of the sort of meditation made widely popular in the late 60s and early 70s cite evidence of physical and psychological benefit.

Algis just brought up the matter of fung shui.


Meditation, prayer, fung shui, yoga, all benefit the body and mind.

It is very possible for prayer to "heal" psychosomatic illnesses. However, there are charlatans who engage in "healing" to bilk the naive. Let's leave it there and not criticise those who take comfort in prayer or meditation or yoga or fung shui.

But surely, if He did manifest Himself in a way that there was no doubt about His existence, that would be even better for Him?

Also, I doubt Christian prayer includes meditation, as meditation requires the clearing of one's mind, whereas Christian prayer requires thinking of what to say or thinking about your question, hence no clear mind.

However, I am reliably told that early Christians used to meditate and that apparently, through statistical studies, it is found that meditation is good for you.

Are you certain you want to say this?

Also, I doubt Christian prayer includes meditation, as meditation requires the clearing of one's mind, whereas Christian prayer requires thinking of what to say or thinking about your question, hence no clear mind.

I belong to the National Federation of Spiritual Healers (Edit: Moderator: website removed) which is non-denominational.

I go to an NFSH healing centre most Wednesday evenings to give healing. We have Jewish and Moslem healers as well as Christian and agnostic .. doesn't matter a bit.

We give a short guided meditation before we commence healing. Nothing religious but something calming.

I believe if someone believes they will get better or believes there are forc(es) that are helping and wants them to get bettrer, they have a higher chance of getting better.

If a person believes the opposite of the above, I think they will have a lesser chance of getting better.

Not sure if the above meets everyone's definition of faith healing though.

It is a faith, of sorts, in the positive.

extra medium, I'm sure you're right.

There are so many cases of people who, although terribly ill, want to live to see a son or daughter's wedding or any other specific occasion. Very often I've heard of them dying straight afterwards but strength of will keeps them alive.

(Sorry about the website. Didn't realise I shouldn't have included it. )

I heard a piece on television about a statiscal analysis someone did on dying before or after an event and the numbers seem to indicate that staying alive for . . . doesn't really happen any more than dying just before does.

The small mind mocking what he does not understand.