Wed 6 Apr, 2005 06:38 pm
I have been doing much research on healing, Edgar Cayce could diagnose and then name the person who could heal you. what I'm looking for is one single documented case of deliverance from terminal illness. (besides the Bible) through touching praying or any other means.
Barnham said it best, "there's a sucker born every minute."
have not really prayed on terminally ill folks
Don't let 'em fool ya none - faith healin' is every bit as real as astrology. Both are based ob the same principle - the one P. T. Barnum summed up so well, as c. i. mentioned. All ya gotta do is Believe. Oh, and while you're busy believin', don't forget to send money.
Timber I never ask for money
The barter system can have tax advantages
I don't believe so. I think that it's all mental.
If someone has cancer, and no one is offering their support or 'prayers' , and they themself do not pray, then their mind is most likely not going to heal their body due to the 'negativity' they are feeling.
However, if another person has the same type of cancer, and has support groups, churches praying for them, and also bow their head nightly encouraging their God to take care of them and to give them the strength to take care of themself, then their mind will most likely begin to heal their body, due to the positive reinforcement.
I don't think it has anything to do with prayer itself, nor do I think prayer works in any way other than indirectly; but I do believe that if you put a person who does not believe they are being helped next to someone who is convinced they've got God and everyone else cheering for them, then who do you think is more likely to heal?
I've wondered about the next step in that process Sanctuary.
ie. If YOU were in such a position, thinking as you do and you thought it likely that such positivety and "belief" could help, would you be able to put yourself in a state of mind that would be just as effective?
I think you probably could......?
puglia, I seem to steer people often to the site of James Randi
...who is offering one MILLION dollars <puts little finger to edge of mouth
> to anyone who can prove any supernatural power of any kind under controlled conditions
Absolutely no clinical evidence of either faith healin' or of "directed positive thought" havin' anything beyond placebo effect exists. It clearly and unambiguously is evident, on the other hand, that some folks can just decide to give up and die, but that's entirely another thing; one may think one's way into actual physical illness, even to the point of demise, but the converse never has been demonstrated in any academically valid, forensically sound manner. Never. Not once. Period. End of discussion.
Some folks will believe what they find convenient or comfortin' to believe, regardless the facts presented. In regards to health matters, such misapprehension all too frequently leads to needless, wholly avoidable, tragedy.
One does not take one's faulty or damaged household appliance or automobile to a repair facillity of nature alternate to the "mainstream", one goes to the conventional, acredited, long-established, institutionalized pros in the relevant disciplines for such care - it is absurd, and often critically, even terminally, dangerous, to do otherwise with one's own corporal body.
Quacks, frauds, and charlatans are criminals, and those who aid, promote, and frequent them perpetuate the insanity. Sadly, there always has been and always will be a plentiful supply of both - predators will find prey, and those who choose to be prey will fall prey to predators. There's an endless, self-perpetuatin', symbiotic relationship goin' on there.
There's no evidence that i've ever seen that shows that "faith healin" works. It's just a scam. It's just some tele-evangelists that want a lot of money so they rob people of their money by saying that they can be healed by sending a donation.
Personally, my basis for miracles not existing anymore, like "faith healin", is on the Bible. I beleive the miracles died of with the 12 apostles, because they were the only ones that could pass on the gift of miracles(besides Jesus).
"Faith" healing is a scam.
On the other hand a positive mental and emotional attitude seems to improve chances of surviving major injury or serious illness.
I think the same as M!TH with the exception of his thirteen exceptions.
There ain't never been no-one "healed" of nuthin by means of that there magic voodoo.
Faith healing works... so do sugar pills. Placeboes can have wonderful effects.
So then I just convince myself that vitamin C tablets are a universal panacea and take one every time I get sick. Much cheaper than seeing a dubious medical practisioner.
Absolutely no clinical evidence of either faith healin' or of "directed positive thought" havin' anything beyond placebo effect exists.
I think most of us are in agreement, the grey area being the placebo effect.
Are we saying that all faith healing "evidence" can be attributed to either fraud or the placebo effect?
There are other options there, Eorl - such as mis-diagnosis in the first place, spontaneous remission, and just plain "Hunh! How 'bout that?! Wunner howinhell that happened - makes no sense at all!"
Just because there is no readilly apparent medical reason for recovery unassociated with medical intervention is no reason to assume anything supernatural might be involved. There are unanswered questions, unexplained events. To assign to such a supernatural causality is nothin' more nor less than superstition.
Of course there is no clinical evidence of faith healing. How could there be? One obviously cannot prove the supernatural through means of natural methodology. The most one can do is to declare something as scientifically inexplicable.
As for religiously related healings, there are numerous such accounts from all over the world, where doctors have seen seemlingy hopelessly ill individuals mysteriously recover to full health in a short time. Most notable perhaps Lourdes, France, where thousands of such healings have taken place during the last centuries, whereof many have been rigorously examined by a medical committee consisting of doctors from several different countries in the world.
Dr. Patrick Theillier, a staunch Catholic, is the current director of the Medical Office at Lourdes, the body charged with investigation of miracle claims pertainin' to the shrine. Among Dr. Theillier's credentials are his diplomas in accupuncture and homeopathy. Previous directors, all doctrinarilly sound Catholics, have included dentists, chiropractors and naturopaths, as well as ordained priests who have had medical backgrounds. Not that any of that perforce invalidates any findings, pro or con, of the Medical Office at Lourdes. It does little to fully allay skepticism, however.
During the Middle Ages, people believed that the bodily remains of certain individuals they deemed saints had the power to heal. One cure was to rinse the relic with water, then bottle the water and distribute it as medicine. Yum!