Baldimo wrote
Quote:If you can't keep your closest and most private commitment, then how can you be expected to keep your oath of office? After all an oath of office only lasts 4 or 8 years but a marriage is supposed to last forever.
What world are you living in? Marriage is forever? How many marriages in the US last forever. If I remember correctly about 50% or so end in divorce. And how many more don't even bother to get married.
Rudy being pro-choice and pro-gay rights never makes it out of a Republican primary..............IMO
rodeman
I would tend to agree with you. I can't see Rudy as being able to capture many of the red states.
Rudi's a good canidate
au1929 wrote:rodeman
I would tend to agree with you. I can't see Rudy as being able to capture many of the red states.
But the blue states... there's hope there. The blue states have more liberal republicans as well as democrats. I still think that Rudi's Wall Street and pro defense friends will make him a contender. The real question is who does GWB want as a successor. If he likes Rudi, then it's a done deal.
See Rudy. See Rudy run.
Quote:With Rudy Giuliani often saying he'd probably run for office again, there were three options: governor, senator, President. When an aide said last week the first two were out, only one choice remains standing.
Rudy's running for Prez.
It's unofficial, of course, but there's no other way to read Giuliani's decision to skip the governor and senate races next year. Win or lose, running for either would have made it impossible to run for President in 2008.
The development brought to mind a conversation with a Giuliani friend in 1988, when Giuliani was Manhattan U.S. attorney. Amid chatter even then that Giuliani had his eye on Washington, his friend argued he was already a national player. "If you had to name 100 people who have a chance to be President, Rudy's name would be on the list," the friend said then.
When I reached the friend last week and reminded him of our conversation, he quickly said, "The list is now down to five."
That sounds about right. In fact, Giuliani's already the front-runner for the GOP nomination. A recent Marist poll put him the top choice among likely candidates, with Arizona Sen. John McCain second.
The same poll put Sen. Hillary Clinton as the top Democrat, meaning she and Giuliani could finally finish that 2000 Senate race aborted by his prostate cancer. Only now the stakes would be as high as they could be.
Nobody gets an easy shot at the Oval Office, Giuliani included. Polls aside, he's to his party's left with support for gun control and gay rights. Having been married three times won't help.
But the biggest barrier will be his pro-choice stance. As former New Jersey Gov. Christine Todd Whitman notes in her book "It's My Party, Too," the 1973 Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion remains the party's biggest fault line. Whitman writes that except for Gerald Ford in 1976, "every subsequent presidential and vice presidential nominee - Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Dan Quayle, Bob Dole, Jack Kemp, George W. Bush and Dick Cheney - supported efforts to overturn Roe vs. Wade at the time they were nominated."
Perhaps Giuliani could break that string, but he denied that he had even decided to try. "No, no," he told me by phone. "The only thing I've decided is not to rule it out." He said the decision would depend on "how important it is, now necessary it is."
"That's how I decided to run for mayor, based on how much of a difference can you make. I wouldn't run just to get noticed, which some people do. I would do it because I thought I could make a big difference. You really have to believe in that to run."
Would national security be a big issue again?
"Given what's going on in the world, national security, foreign policy and the global economy will be big issues permanently. The old line from 1992, 'it's the economy, stupid,' meaning domestic issues, was permanently changed by Sept. 11."
Will we be attacked again? "My answer is always we are safer, but we are not yet safe."
When I asked whether the Democrats were moving too far left with Howard Dean as boss, his answer could serve as a warning to his own party, too.
"Most elections are won in the middle. Especially in a presidential election, you need broad appeal to be successful."
"Values are important," he added, "but who makes us feel safer is dominant...if you're a Democrat, you have to find some way to deal with that."
His health?
"My health is terrific, I feel great and I'm cancer free."
Since Hillary is clearly running for President, we might finally get the Big Showdown?
He laughed, long and loud. I take that as a yes.
Originally published on April 10, 2005
The people from both parties who pooh-pooh Rudy's "infidelity" issue have to be prepared to deal with the WAY he conducted his affair.
I too think that Clinton's affair should have been his own business,and that the far greater evil was Ken Starr's out-of-control investigation. Starr was hired to look into an Arkansas land deal, and ended up asking an intern whch parts of Clinton's body she was touching, and in what sequence. That was ridiculous.
But Rudy? Let's review his behavior here.
While he was still married and living with his wife and children, he had his girlfriend, Judy Nathan, appear at his public appearances. While they did not sit together, there clearly was no reason for her to be at these places.
When news of that leaked out, Giuliani graduated to having Nathan march with him at the Columbus Day parade-very big,and very visible. It removed all doubt that Rudy was very publicly going with Nathan.
The next step was for Rudy to publicly suggest that during public banquets held at Gracie Mansion, Judy Nathan will be at his side acting as hostess, greeting ambassadors and other dignitaries, while his wife and kids stay upstairs in the living quarters!! His wife was supposed to stay upstairs while another woman stands by her husband's side hosting gala affairs.
It gets worse.
Gracie Mansion is the official residence of the Mayor of the City of New York. Since the marriage was clearly breaking up, Rudy tried to force his wife out of Gracie Manision. He argued that since he was the Mayor, the residence was basically for him so his wife and kids can clear out. He did this right in front of the city and the world, all over the papers.
When the public expressed outrage at that concept-remember, Rudy could not run for a third term, all he had to do was to keep up appearances for a couple of years and he could have dodged all this-Rudy finally moved out himself and into the apartment of a gay couple he knew.
The final touch? When Rudy had divorce papers served on his wife, he notified the press right after he did it, but not her. His wife went out one day to see why reporters were gathering outside the door, and was informed by reporters-not by her husband-that she was being served with a divorce action. With no time to emotionally prepare for the news, she broke down and started crying when she was informed-right in front of the TV cameras and photographers. Her final humiliation-the TV and newspapers knew she was getting divorced before she did.
For years, we have been reading about how the Republicans are supposed to be so upset at Clinton's affair and his lying under oath about it. But Clinton lied under oath because he was embarrassed at what he did, or at least embarrassed at being caught at it. Clinton at least understood the concept that a public official has to pay hmage to the marriage ideal, and try to keep any hanky-panky as discreet as possible. And still the Republicans try to tell us how angry they are with Clinton, he disgraced himself, etc.
Well, Giuliani went several steps beyond that. No, he didn't lie. He brazenly decided to go out with his mistress while he was still married, tried to get his wife to publicly accept the arrangement while they were still living together, tried to kick her and the kids out of the house and then set up his wife for further humiliations the day the divorce papers were served.
Rudy was honest, all right. He was openly and honestly vengeful, honestly vindictive, honestly contemptuous of even keeping up appearances for the sake of his family, and the sake of office of Mayor. Yes, Rudy really put on a pig show the likes of which Clinton didn't even come near.
Now, the voters of New York are known for being jaded. In a city which is the center of world commerce, the basic ethic is: what can you do for me? As long as someone you hire does his job well, you don't care what he does when go goes home to his own neighborhood, (harldy anyone in New York lives in the same neighborhood as their co-workers). Once a person leaves the job, he's off in his own world, as far as his boss or co-workers are concerned.
Rudy's antics caused alrm even in New York. What they will do when exposed in detail to the rest of the country, running for a party's nomination which has been harping on Clinton's comparatively mild behavior for six years, boggles the mind.
kelticwizard
Rudy's personal life and behavior is the stuff that fills the gossip columns. And is the meat that Voyeurs feast on. My only concern is his performance as mayor of NY City. His marital antics are no business of mine.
As for his being the republic standard bearer in 08. He has about as much chance of being nominated as a snowball in hell.
au1929 wrote:kelticwizard
Rudy's personal life and behavior is the stuff that fills the gossip columns.
Actually, front page headlines in two inch letters in the Daily News and the Post, plus coverage on TV, including that bit of his wife breaking down crying when she found out from reporters that Rudy filed the divorce papers.
au1929 wrote:And is the meat that Voyeurs feast on. My only concern is his performance as mayor of NY City. His marital antics are no business of mine.
I take it you live, or used to live, in New York City. I grew up there, and as far as it being more important that a guy get the job done than to be a nice guy, I agree with you. In fact, if I still lived in New York City and Rudy ran for Mayor again, I would consider voting for him.
But au, there are limits. Everybody knows that politicans keep up a big front when it comes to family, etc, but there are good reasons that front is kept up. The public official has to pay respect at least to the ideal of marriage, and at least exercise some discretion in his extramarital hanky panky.
Rudy didn't even bother. The show he put on was just unbelievable. And New York City, with it's can-you-get-the-job-done-or-can't-you attitude, is likely to be far more forgiving of this kind of thing than the country at large. And even New Yorkers had a hard time believing it when it happened.
au1929 wrote:As for his being the republic standard bearer in 08. He has about as much chance of being nominated as a snowball in hell.
I agree with you there. Not just for this, but for other reasons as well. But don't fool yourself-Rudy's behavior as regards his wife and affair is so far beyond acceptable it will be an issue if he runs for the nomination.
KW
Yes I was born in Brooklyn, NY. And apart from my stints in the Army have always lived there.
As to it being an issue if he runs for office. In politics every bit of dirty linen will be aired and used as a weapon by the opposition.
Concerning the morality issue and the rest of the nation. I would think that it would be more productive if they were concerned with the immorality this administration. Instead of who is sleeping with whom. I can only suppose they do not consider lying immoral
