0
   

A chicken an egg question

 
 
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 05:38 pm
So, me and littlek were driving up to New Hampshire to find some maple sugaring farms. We found a farm, but the sugaring is over. That's quite OK, we were let in to share a pen with a few goats and sheep. We saw a few cows and talked to a few horses, so the day was not wasted.
As we were driving back the topic of 'shag carpets' came up for some reason. Being a foreigner I was always puzzled by that term, as I came to know the word "shag" from Austin Powers movies. So, which came first: a "shag carpet" or the popular term used for intercourse: "shagging". I really need to know. And, are they connected? What about a shaggy dog, or a haircut?

We were wondering about something else too, but it escapes me now. Maybe littlek will remember.
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,692 • Replies: 22
No top replies

 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 05:39 pm
......um........ I can't remember!
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 05:43 pm
well...think!
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 05:44 pm
I'm trying to.

Have you loaded up the pix?
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 05:45 pm
Shaggy came first (which is why Scooby never came at all!).

Seems to me that shag carpet would have predated shaggin by a little bit. After all, carpet is slang for... well, you didn't see much Brazlian waxing in the 60s and 70s.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 05:45 pm
C'mon, kids, you've been together all weekend. Let somebody else play.
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 05:47 pm
hmm. that was quick. but what does the word 'shaggy' have to do with either?
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 05:48 pm
Beats me. Aincha got a dictionary?

I used to shag fly balls at baseball practice, but Coach caught me and made me let the flies go.
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 05:48 pm
So,

1. shag dog
2. shag haircut
3. shaggin

Yes?
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 05:49 pm
patiodog wrote:

I used to shag fly balls at baseball practice, but Coach caught me and made me let the flies go.


<groan>
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 05:49 pm
Dag, you need to take into account that Austin Powers is a Mike Meyers creation - which means the slang in them is often Canajun/Brit, not American.

So the Canajun/Brit shag/sex act may not have any correlation whatever with the American shag haircut/rug. Could, but they're kinda 2 different languages.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 05:52 pm
The OED has "shag" used as a noun in the 11th century, in some form that looks Gaelic or something (no word buff am I). Late 16th century has literary uses of the word "shaggie," one describing hair, the other grass.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 05:53 pm
14th century has shag used as a verb meaning "to toss about." So perhaps the sexy shagging did predate the carpet.

I'm happy to eat my words, particularly if the word be carpet, ay.
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 05:53 pm
Good info, pdog
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 05:55 pm
But this is probably what you're going to get for the carpet reference, as shag is apparently a textile term...

Quote:
To make a long or rough nap or pile on (a cloth or other material). Obs. rare.

1671 E. BLOOD in Abridgm. Specif. Patents, Weaving (1861) 1 A rich silk shagg..made of a silke wast..and shagged by tezell or rowing cardes, like as English bayes, rowed fustians, or dimatyes.





No, how dull is that?
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 05:58 pm
So, if the 'shag' term comes from the 16thC for hair and grass, then shagging a carpet (snicker) could be a technique used to make a similar effect in carpets.

Hmmm... tossing about, eh?
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 06:06 pm
hmm, so it could come both from 'tossing around' or from the shag carpet. i'd go for tossing around, since ehbeth made the good point that the origin of 'shagging' is british/canajun. cannot decide, this is tough.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 06:18 pm
From
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19990107 :

Quote:
Shag is first recorded in the late eighteenth century, in the second edition of Captain Francis Grose's Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue, defined as "to copulate." Through the nineteenth century, the word was apparently considered quite vulgar; it is only found in underground or privately printed books (such as Pearl, a pornographic newsletter published in 1879 and 1880). However there are several American examples during this period. Shag is said to have been common in the speech of British soldiers in World War One, where it may have been further exposed to Americans. It isn't until the post-WWII period, though, that it begins to appear openly in general writings. It is found only rarely in American use, and those few examples may be deliberate attempts at using a Briticism.

Shag has some standard derived forms--as a noun meaning 'an act of copulation' or 'a person considered as a sexual partner', and the like--and is also used in various phrases corresponding to other sexual verbs (shag off, shag you, etc.).

The origin of shag is unfortunately unknown. There is an earlier verb shag meaning 'to shake; waggle', which fits perfectly semantically (compare frig, which originally meant 'to move back and forth' and then developed senses like 'to masturbate', 'to copulate', etc.), but this word was apparently never very common and no examples are known after the sixteenth century. Still, it is the most likely candidate. The later verb shag 'to chase', used especially in baseball, is also of unknown origin and its relationship to our shag is unknown.

0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 06:20 pm
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=s&p=16

Quote:
shag (v.)
"copulate with," 1788, probably from obs. verb shag (c.1380) "to shake, waggle," which probably is connected to shake (cf. shake, shake it in U.S. blues slang from 1920s, ostensibly with ref. to dancing).
"And þe boot, amydde þe water, was shaggid." [Wyclif]
Also the name of a dance popular in U.S. 1930s and '40s. The baseball verb meaning "to catch" (fly balls) is attested from 1913, of uncertain origin or connection to other senses of the word.



Can I stop now?
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2005 06:29 pm
dagmaraka wrote:
So, me and littlek were driving up to New Hampshire....


I love that state. Found a really neat spot on the Applachian Trail where you can relax on a flat rock halfway up the mountain, the sun warming the rock, and three waterfalls surrouding you and covering you with a cool mist.

Gotta get back to that rock.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

deal - Question by WBYeats
Let pupils abandon spelling rules, says academic - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Please, I need help. - Question by imsak
Is this sentence grammatically correct? - Question by Sydney-Strock
"come from" - Question by mcook
concentrated - Question by WBYeats
 
  1. Forums
  2. » A chicken an egg question
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.07 seconds on 06/22/2024 at 08:46:19