Yes, yes.
Ok - something is happening in Ohio.
Do you Timber deny Squinney's allegation that a/some Republicans have established some kind of group claiming to be non-partisan to make some sort of representation to whatever is happening in Ohio?
My point Timber (cos I have to go to work and need to cut this short) is that it appears you have responded to Squinney's thread merely to sneer re partisanship.
If you know that her allegation is untrue, and the evidence by which you know this is common knowledge, then you may have a point.
Otherwise, I think your response here has been markedly partisan (ie no response to the actual facts alleged - merely a very generalised sneer against what you feel to be Democrat faults - especially partisanship.)
But I am glad you agree that electoral misconduct is very serious.
If the allegation made by Squinney turns out to be correct, would you agree that this act by a/some Republicans is very untoward?
And worth being commented upon?
I accept, of course, that there was partisanship in Squinney's picking this allegation to discuss here - we are all partisan.
I wa smerely struck by what I see as the irony of your particular comments here.
There are allegations, dlowan, accustions, not legal findin's, court decision's, or hury verdicts. What there is, what will develop, remains to be seen. Allegations are not convictions. We shall see. I doubt very much we shall see anything that will make those behind such things as Squinney has put forward here very happy, nor offer those of persuasion more similar to mine any reason to be unhappy.
Not the actual point I was making, nor an answer to the questions I was asking, but nemmind. "tisn't that important.
More interesting info. Election Reform Commission claims to be Baker - Carter but there's no Carter!
Quote:PARTISANS DISCUSS 'REFORM'
Questions surface regarding legitimacy of Baker-Carter election reform commission
By Larisa Alexandrovna | RAW STORY Staff
Serious questions of conservative partisanship have surfaced surrounding an electoral reform commission co-chaired by former President Jimmy Carter and erstwhile Secretary of State James Baker, RAW STORY has learned.
Election reform? Republicans and Democrats embark on election reform with help from voting companies, front groups, pundits and a few genuine election reform groups peppered in.
The Carter Center denies any involvement with the Baker-Carter Commission on Federal Election Reform even though they are on much of its literature. Carter stepped down from the center in March.
Perhaps most significant, however, is the partisan makeup of those on the Commission's panels. In a situation reminiscent of GOPUSA and Gannongate, a recent election reform group has seemingly sprouted from nowhere and in short order landed a seat at the table....
READ THE LIST OF PARTISANS HERE
...The Commission on Federal Election Reform will be
hosted by American University's Center for Democracy and Election Management and in association with Rice University's James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy, electionsonline.org, and the Carter Center.
But RAW STORY has learned that the
Carter Center flatly denies any involvement with the Commission, even though the Center is listed on all of the Commission's materials and official Web site. This is despite the fact that Carter has stepped down from the Center and that the Center is not endorsing or working in association with the commission.
"They must have just phrased it that way because President Carter headed this organization," said a confused Tynesha Green, a spokesperson for the Carter Center. "But I know for a 100 percent that there is no program [at the Carter Center] that is involved with it."
RAW STORY contacted President Carter, but he was unavailable for comment.
Baker's assistant slammed the phone down without comment. ElectionLine did not return calls placed to its founder Doug Chapin.
I would be willing to drop the allegations if one thing were to happen:
Plenty of voter machines in each precinct, spitting out a printed slip the voter reads over before dropping in a ballot box. The votes could be counted electronically, but cases of suspected irregularities could be simply addressed. That is not a partisan expectation and there is no reason to oppose the notion.
Agree, Edgar. But, the commission set up to look into the "irregularities" has no intention of making votes count, IMO.
Freely (R-FL) is part of a scam for hiring someone to create vote stealing software in the Florida 2000 election. 4+ years later, nothing has been done to him. I don't really expect anything to be done about Ohio either.
I think it has to go nationwide. Every state expected to do it. I also know public apathy will prevent it happening.
Pretty much agree with the electonic vote/secure paper trail scheme edgar, and that's gettin' serious attention lostsa high places. We're likely to see somethin' come of it. On the other hand, nothin' pertinent to the '04 election will come of the current Ohio flap. Washington State well may prove a different case entirely, and one not much to the likin' of The Democrats.
I know, timber. The election is long over. I think they are just trying to establish what went wrong, who to blame, and how to be ready for next time. I can almost see it's futile, except if nobody hollers, nobody will act.
What I find funny is that some of the complaints are that some people had to (GASP!! SHUDDER!!)
stand in line before they could vote.
These same people think nothing about standing in line for concert tickets,tickets to a ball game,etc.
edgarblythe wrote:I would be willing to drop the allegations if one thing were to happen:
Plenty of voter machines in each precinct, spitting out a printed slip the voter reads over before dropping in a ballot box. The votes could be counted electronically, but cases of suspected irregularities could be simply addressed. That is not a partisan expectation and there is no reason to oppose the notion.
I have an idea that will solve everything.
Lets give everyone their own personal voting machine,that way there is no possible way that anyone can complain.
mysteryman wrote: ... Lets give everyone their own personal voting machine,that way there is no possible way that anyone can complain.
I expect that after a fashion somethin' very like that will come to pass as technology matures and The Information Society continues to develop. I believe what now is accomplished by the telephone, the cellphone, the computer, the PDA, television, and more, much more, in the not so distant future will be consolidated into the function of a single, wearable personal information interface.
mysteryman wrote:edgarblythe wrote:I would be willing to drop the allegations if one thing were to happen:
Plenty of voter machines in each precinct, spitting out a printed slip the voter reads over before dropping in a ballot box. The votes could be counted electronically, but cases of suspected irregularities could be simply addressed. That is not a partisan expectation and there is no reason to oppose the notion.
I have an idea that will solve everything.
Lets give everyone their own personal voting machine,that way there is no possible way that anyone can complain.
and every vote will go to a central data processing area where results can and will be manipulated. What's the point?
Mysteryman obiously doesn't care to solve the situation, so long as he perceives it distresses 'the opposition.'
I think anybody who falls for propaganda is week and can't think for them selves. There sure are a lot of week Americans. It's becoming common knowledge that the Republican party is just one big fascist propaganda machine. Why do people keep falling for this crap.
I blame the churches who brain was their followers into believing this Republican crap.
At least Democrats are starting to figure out the root of the problem. It's good that they aren't trying to beat them at their own game, but simply exposing their dirty deeds.
Update:
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1284
Quote:Attack on election board whistleblower and leaked Blackwell threats re-fire Ohio's election theft scandal
by Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman
May 23, 2005
The potential firing of Ohio whistleblower Sherole Eaton, Deputy Director of the Hocking County Board of Elections, has re-fired bitter controversy over the stolen 2004 presidential election.
And newly released documents confirming a pre-election threat by Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell against election board officials has added to the mix, as has the dismissal of Blackwell's highly publicized sanction attempt against attorneys who challenged the election outcome.
A paid Hocking County Election Board staff official, Eaton gained national notoriety when she blew the whistle on a Triad vote count technician. The technician swapped-out a hard drive in the tabulating computer located at the Board of Elections office before a statewide recount could be completed. According to a December 3, 2004 affidavit sworn by Eaton, the Triad technician "advised" the Hocking County Board of Elections' Republican Director Lisa Schwartze on how to "post a 'cheat sheet'" to make the recount match the officially reported election total. Advocates of the recount complain that the unexplained intrusion by the technician compromised the integrity of the vote count.
Eaton's whistleblower report resulted in heavy national publicity surrounding the technician's intrusion, including dramatic testimony at hearings conducted by Congressman John Conyers (D-MI) that helped lead to the historic January 6 challenge of the seating of the Ohio Electoral College delegation in Congress. Revelations of the technician's intrusion led to angry charges that the vote count had been hopelessly tainted.
In an exclusive May 23 interview, Schwartze told Freepress.org that "Sherole is on vacation." When asked if Eaton had been fired, Schwartze commented that Eaton has until June 30 to resign or be fired, and "that decision came from the Board."
At the Ohio Democratic Party's annual dinner, Eaton told the Free Press that she is not at liberty to discuss the situation, but that she is "a federal whistleblower" who sees the Board's action against her as "retaliation" for her affidavit revealing Triad's critical intrusion.
Though comprised of both Republicans and Democrats, the Hocking County Board now pressuring Eaton continues to act under direct threat from Secretary of State Blackwell. Blackwell administered the 2004 election in Ohio while serving as the state's co-chair for the Bush-Cheney campaign. He has been widely criticized in Congress, in the media and throughout Ohio for heavy-handed partisan manipulations that resulted in Bush carrying Ohio and the presidency.
In a letter dated October 5, 2004 to Republican Chair of the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections Robert Bennett, Blackwell specifically threatened removal of any board member who refused to follow his direct orders. The threat undermines Republican arguments that the election was fair because both Democrats and Republicans serve on election boards. "Be advised that your actions are not in compliance with Ohio law and further failure to comply with my lawful directives will result in official action, which may include removal of the Board and its Director," Blackwell wrote Bennett....
More at the link provided above.
timberlandko wrote:There is no objection whatsoever to a thorough, objective review of the system. What is objectionable is tryin' to press the issue from a partisan perspective. Pardon me, Dems, but your agenda is showin'.
Again.
pardon me repubs but your agenda is showing as well. Nekkid. with downward spiraling approval ratings, downward spiraling economy, downward spiraling cooperation within your own party, downward spiraling respect in the world, downward spiraling ability to create or maintain a united front to the world.
You have cheated in elections, and all the rhetoric about "quit whining" won't change it.
The Dems have been waving that flag since before the '02 Mid-Terms, BVT. The Electorate, in the meanwhile, has been rallying behind The American Flag. Hang in there; whatever the Dems are doing, its working - just not for The Dems.
We'll see. When your party is kicked out of power, I want to see ya here simply stating how wrong you were.
Cycloptichorn
