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Republicans At It Again - Ohio Vote Hearings Also a Scam?

 
 
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 07:45 am
Along with fake news, hired propogandist journalists and fake White House Reporters, we can now add FAKE non-partisan groups formed to testify at Ohio voter fraud hearings.

http://www.bradblog.com/ACVR.htm

From the first breaking news article:

Quote:



Follow the articles as posted at the above link for the full story as it evolves.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,983 • Replies: 41
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 08:01 am
There's MORE: Evidently, the "Blue Ribbon" commission on voting issues created in secret and with James Baker as co-chair (remember his role in Florida 2000?) is a COORDINATED ATTACK on voting rights by the current administration.

The Commission was seated in secret, announced on Thursday at 2pm, and lauded in a Press Release published by ACVR just 24 minutes later!

More info here: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/31/115039/228
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 08:44 am
I read about this. The whole thing is a con job by the righties in the area, and frankly a badly performed one at that...

Cycloptichorn
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Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2005 10:48 pm
You lefties just can't give up hope can you. Kerry lost, you all lost and Bush is going to be in office for the next few years. Instead of looking for something that isn't there, why don't you focus your energy on making the voting more profecient.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2005 11:04 pm
Well, fair question, I guess, Baldimo. But then, developin' a coherent, well defined, unambiguous message of substantive, positive, proactive reform and change, articulated clearly, unwaverin'ly, and sincerely by a credible, charismatic, unarguably qualified candidate who enjoyed not just genuine broadbased support within the Democratic Party, but also appealed to centrists, undecideds, new voters, and disaffected Republicans apparently hasn't the appeal of "We wuz robbed".
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2005 11:06 pm
Continuing to cry 5 years later or even 1 year later isn't helping either.

Did the Conservatives cry and decry cheating when the Dems controlled everything?
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 10:43 am
This has nothing to down with being sore losers. Why the neocons continuously use that sad excuse only makes them look more ridiculous...

But it has everything to do with our democracy and the Constitutional right to vote. I mean, with friends like Diebold, who needs accountability these days?
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 10:49 am
Noone is suggesting that we should over-turn the election based upon the information recieved, so why is this labelled as 'sore loser?'

There should be NO barriers to ensuring the system works accurately in the future. It can only benefit the republican party for the system to work accurrately if they are on the up-and-up, so what's the objection to a complete system review?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 01:25 pm
http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/columns/executive_tech/article.php/3495176

Quote:
Computer Experts Allege U.S. Vote Fraud
April 5, 2005
By Brian Livingston


A group of distinguished computer scientists and mathematicians, including nine Ph.D.s, says it has found statistical evidence that vote counts of the 2004 U.S. presidential election were tampered with in one or more states, affecting the outcome.

To support its claims, the group, known as USCountVotes.org, shows that exit polls taken on Nov. 2 cannot be reconciled with announced vote tallies in some states.

The discrepancies, the organization points out, are worse in the U.S. than in one of two exit polls conducted during Ukraine's recent national election, which resulted in the results being thrown out by that country's Supreme Court last December. The two Ukrainian exit polls showed a discrepancy between the expected vote count and the official vote count of 4.7 to 10.7 percentage points. In the U.S., both USCountVotes.org and the company that conducted the presidential exit polling agree that the official vote count is at least 5.5 percentage points different from the expected vote count.

Americans, to be sure, are still exhausted from the 36-day legal ordeal that followed the 2000 presidental election. They understandably want the 2004 election to be wrapped up and consigned to history. For this reason, I've avoided writing about various problems with the 2004 election that computer scientists have speculated on for the past several months.

When USCountVotes.org released its comprehensive statistical analysis on March 31, however, the situation dramatically changed. There can be no doubt that questionable practices affected votes for president in some states.

Because the legitimacy of the U.S. government rests on the expectation that it is fairly elected, it's in the interests of Republicans, Democrats and Independents alike to examine the new evidence and use it to correct whatever problems are found. In addition, I believe this situation can show how computer science can be used when business groups with different interests want to assure themselves that any contested process will be handled faithfully.

Why Exit Polls Are More Accurate Than Others

Exit polling is a well-understood science. It's precise enough to be used in countries around the world by election monitors to detect tampering with official vote counts. There are various reasons for this:

• Sample size. Most pre-election state and national polls involve only 400 to 1,200 participants. If the sample is truly random, these polls are said to have a 95% chance of being within 3 to 5 percentage points of the results you'd get by asking every actual voter. By contrast, exit polls on election day have many more participants.

• Results on the ground. The 2004 U.S. exit poll involved 1,480 polling locations alone, plus surveying absentee voters. Of those voters who were approached when leaving the polls, about 53% agreed to answer the pollster's questions. Due to the much larger sample, exit polls often differ less than 1 percentage point from the official vote count.

• Fresh information. Exit polls also benefit from the fact that voters are being asked how they just voted inside the polling place only a few minutes earlier. Pre-election polls must ask people how they might vote "if the election were being held today."

The Official Explanation

Exit polling in 2004 was conducted for six major television networks and news organizations by the National Election Pool (NEP), a system designed by two private firms, Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International.

Because the exit polling produced figures that differred widely from some states' official vote counts, Edison/Mitofsky released a 77-page report on Jan. 19. The authors stated, "The weighted national survey numbers showed Kerry with 51% and Bush with 48% [a 3-point spread for Kerry]. The final national popular vote margin ended up being 2.5% for Bush. Thus, the national exit poll had an error of 5.5 points on the difference in the Democratic direction."

The Edison/Mitofsky report shows that the difference was not caused by selecting the wrong polling places. These locations proved to mirror the makeup of each state.

The report concluded that "Kerry voters were more likely to participate in the exit polls that Bush voters." This explanation seemed to satisfy the U.S. news media, and that seemed to be the end of that.

The Challengers' Explanation

The March 31 analysis by USCountVotes.org, however, demolishes the Edison/Mitofsky conclusion. The Ph.D.s who conducted the analysis found, using NEP's own data, that Bush voters actually had a slightly higher rate of participation in the exit polls than Kerry voters.

The signers of the critical analysis include such experienced hands as Frank Stenger, professor of numerical analysis at the University of Utah; Richard Sheehan, professor of finance at the University of Notre Dame; and Campbell Read, professor emeritus of statistical science at Southern Methodist University. These experts say in their paper, "No matter how one calculates it, the discrepancy cannot be attributed to chance."

Ron Baiman, Ph.D., is associated with the Institute of Government and Public Affairs of the University of Illinois at Chicago and is a signer of the report. He found that "statistically significant discrepancies of exit poll results from reported election outcomes were concentrated in five states, four of which were key battleground states," such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida. As most Americans know, the presidential vote in these states was close, and a shift in any one state would have tipped the election.

How The Votes Could Have Been Changed

Since ballot-box stuffing has a long and rich history in the U.S., the Ph.D.s behind the new report say they're disappointed that "Edison/Mitofsky did not even consider this hypothesis." Vote tampering has been attributed to both Democrats and Republicans in elections past. In the 1960 race, for example, John F. Kennedy won the state of Illinois by only 9,000 votes, and allegations that ballots were manufactured by the Daley political machine have never been settled with finality.

Asked how votes in one or more states could have been changed to affect the outcome in 2004, Bruce O'Dell, the vice president of USCountVotes.org, pointed out that about 30% of U.S. votes are now cast on equipment that cannot be audited. Once a count is issued by these electronic ballot boxes, the number cannot be double-checked against paper ballots.

"Many security professionals can identify a dozen different methods to alter these results," O'Dell said.

O'Dell pointed to Ohio, where a change of only about 60,000 voters would have given that state's electors, and thereby the election, to Kerry. A recount in that state was meaningless, he said, because (among other things) only a few, pre-selected polling places were recounted and equipment vendors had been inexplicably allowed to re-program election machinery after Nov. 2.

What We Know And What We May Never Know

For its part, the Edison/Mitofski report says, "We are in the process of an in-depth evaluation of the exit poll process in Ohio and Pennsylvania."

In a telephone interview, Joe Lenski -- vice president of Edison Media Research -- declined to comment on the USCountVotes.org analysis without prior approval of NEP's public relations chair. The immediate past NEP p.r. chair, Cathie Levine of ABC News, declined to answer questions via telephone and failed by press time to respond to an e-mail requesting comment.

USCountVotes.org is assembling a computerized database of precinct-by-precinct results from around the nation in hopes of finding more statistical patterns that can answer the questions that have been raised. The organization hopes to be ready by the 2006 and 2008 elections to use exit-poll data to catch vote tampering, if it occurs, almost immediately, O'Dell says.

This is a sensitive subject. I can hardly imagine a more divisive topic, on which my readers will certainly not be of one mind. For this reason, I plan to write a follow-up column next week, in which I'll include comments from at least one Republican, one Democrat and one Independent.

My only requirement is that you read the USCountVotes.org analysis and the original Edison/Mitofsky report. Send your comments to me by April 7 using the address on my contact page, as described below.

I know computer technology can be used for good or ill. I hope this is a case where technology can be used to reduce vote fraud, not to accelerate it.



Brian Livingston is the editor of WindowsSecrets.com and the co-author of "Windows Me Secrets" and nine other books. Send story ideas to him via his contact page.


"No matter how one views it, the discrepancies are not attributable to chance."

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 02:00 pm
There is no objection whatsoever to a thorough, objective review of the system. What is objectionable is tryin' to press the issue from a partisan perspective. Pardon me, Dems, but your agenda is showin'.


Again.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 02:13 pm
How can we press the issue but from a partisan agenda? The Republicans in the Admin and Congress refuse to examine the issue at all; so who is left to call for it to be done?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 02:30 pm
I can understand where you're commin' from, Cyc. No one is refusin' to objectively recognize, examine, determine, and proactively address the flaws of the current US electoral system. What is bein' rejected are the wishes of some to do so not objectively and proactively, but rather accordin' to a partisan agenda. Naturally, those devoted to that partisan agenda see refusal to accommodate their wishes as obstructionism.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 02:45 pm
Well, I think there is a vested interest in our completing an assessment of the voting problems in America before the next major voting cycle comes around again; in '06 or '08 at the latest!

Who is in a position to see that this gets done in time? Those who seem to be the least inclined to get it done, the Republican party.

What choices are left for those who understand the desperate need for this reform to happen? You must realize that these problems are probably the biggest threat to our democratic system at the moment; if we cannot secure our voting rights, then we no longer live in a Democracy.

Dare I say that those who oppose this review of the system... want exactly that? Otherwise, wouldn't they be pushing for a review as well, in the name of safety for our system?

What methods do you/anyone else reading think can be used to ensure that our votes are secure?

How should this problem be attacked in a non-partisan manner? What could be done to ensure that it is non-partisan when one of the parties flat-out refuses to even admit that there is a problem?

Cheers

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 04:02 pm
timberlandko wrote:
There is no objection whatsoever to a thorough, objective review of the system. What is objectionable is tryin' to press the issue from a partisan perspective. Pardon me, Dems, but your agenda is showin'.


Again.


So, I think, is yours Timber. At least it seems so to me so far.

Again.

I don't give much of a brass razoo about this stuff in practice - it won't make a difference to the election result, but, if a fake group has been set up masquerading as a non-partisan one to give evidence, I see that as worth reporting on. It is dishonest. And I think we all agree that getting the voting system right in any country is a serious endeavour, worthy of transparent participation, no?


So, firstly, Timber - is your critique based on denying the allegation of some Republicans having set up a fake non-partisan front?

(I have no idea if it is true or not.)
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 04:17 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
How should this problem be attacked in a non-partisan manner? What could be done to ensure that it is non-partisan when one of the parties flat-out refuses to even admit that there is a problem?

Cheers

Cycloptichorn


I guess I don't really understand the background to this - but a non-partisan process would seem to me to entail that partisan interests are declared upfront and that there is a genuinely neutral (or able to be neutral as a professional) body makes the decision.

That is why, if there has been a front organization created by some Republicans, (or democrats, or some other group with a vested interest which is not declared) claiming neutrality, when it is partisan, I see that as serious misconduct.

Nobody in such a situation is likely to BE non-partisan - but their vested interests ought to be known and declared.

I guess I am puzzled - here, if electoral misconduct is alleged, it goes to court and gets hammered out. If someone is still unhappy, it can go to appeal - if someone wants to waste a lot of money.

I guess we tend to have real faith in our electoral organisation here - so allegations of misconduct seldom happen- and folk seem to accept the umpire's decision pretty readily - so I may be being extremely naive about what is going on here. It just seems so simple! Declare your interests if you be gonna participate.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 04:19 pm
Our problem is that there isn't anyone who can really send it to court, or take real action upon the issue, besides the party that doesn't want, apparently, that to happen. It isn't a good situation for our Democracy.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 04:26 pm
Evidence-supported electoral misconduct goes to court here, too, dlowan. Despite the Democrat's indefatigable search and their "!0,000 Lawyers", precious little actual evidence has turned up. In fact, at present, so far as I am aware, a few incidents, in Milwaukee and in Philadelphia, as well as somewhere in Florida, I believe, have entered the court system. The charged parties have been in the Democrats' camp, or at least actin' on behalf thereof.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 04:32 pm
Yes - but there appears to be some sort of process occurring in Ohio, no? Yes?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 04:38 pm
Somethin's playin' out there - whether it will come to anything remains to be seen. If purposeful malfeasance is proven, hang the bastards responsible, whoever they are. I suspect, however, incompetence and irresonsiblity will be major factors in any irregularity actually demonstrated, if in fact such even can conclusively be shown to exist. There are querstions. The answers aren't in yet. We'll see. Of that I'm certain.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 04:41 pm
My point isn't that it needs to be challenged in court, i.e. make some sort of claim based upon the findings, but a complete review of the system with common-sense safety features in mind.

It is no lie that many of the electronic machines either malfunction or can be hacked quite easily; it should concern everyone who wants to keep living in a democracy.

Those who have the ability to lead such a comprehensive study and reform of the system aren't showing much signs of doing so: Congress and the Exec. branch. I guess they are too busy worrying about Terri Schiavo and steroids in Baseball to deal with such trivial matters...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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