1
   

should marijuana be legalized??

 
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Sep, 2006 12:34 pm
"Far out, man." What's the question?
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Sep, 2006 01:04 pm
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 12:14 am
Ok, here's my story for whom may be interested.

I was born and raised in Massachusetts, where I spent 34 years of my life. I have a son who the schools said was a sweet, polite boy, but he had trouble focusing in class. He was not disruptive in any way and was not a problem for them, other than him have some problems understanding the teachers.
They made it sound like he had problems in all areas of his schooling, yet his only problem was with math.
They (schools) refused to put him in a special class for math because they said he was too smart.
So, they suggested I get him tested for ADD and when I agreed to do this, I stepped into hell.
My son was diagnosed with ADHD and the psychiatrist recommended Ritalin. I had already heard about Ritalin and none of it was good, so there was no way I was putting my child on a very harmful drug, which I later found, falls in the same category of drug as cocaine.
Soon after I refused to drug my son, I get a call from Child Protection services saying I've been accused of medical neglect and they would need to investigate the matter.
I was totally and completely devistated. I mean, I was blown away by all this and I thought I must have been having a bad dream.
I figured they would come, I would explain my concerns about putting my son on Ritalin and they would agree and go away, leaving us to move on with our lives.
For those of you who don't already know me, I was a single mom running a taxi business 20 minutes from Boston.
DSS (Department of Social Servises) comes for their visit, but it didn't go anywhere near where I thought it would go.
They went from accusing me of medical neglect to forcing me to put my son in counselling simply because his father and I were no longer together.
At one point, I had to agree to put my son on the Ritalin or they were taking him.
I filled the prescription, but flushed them as soon as I got home. I gave him a little sugar pill and told him it was his medication, because I knew the shrink, the school and DSS was going to question him, which they did often.
My son caught me dumping the Ritalin one day, So I decided to tell him that he wasn't taking them and why. I had to tell him that it was important that he kept telling people that he was still taking them because they will make him take them at school if I don't give them to him.
I guess I couldn't expect him to keep it secret because not many kids can do that, lol.
Anyway, my son let it slip at school one day that he wasn't taking his ritalin and never did.
The school reported this to DSS and that's when the gates of hell opened up in our world.
DSS came, threatened to take my son, so I was forced to give him the Ritalin. The side effects my son had from that drug scared the living **** out of me.
His heart was racing, he could barely eat, sleep, felt sick to his stomache, and was like a zombie etc..., yet when I call his shrink in a panic, he says this is normal and my sons body simply had to adjust.

HOLY F*CK!!!!!!!!!!! There was absolutely nothing normal about what my son was going through!

That's when I knew I had to get my son the hell out of there!

Luckily, both my parents were born in Canada, so we were eligable for dual citizenship between Canada/America.
I took my son back off the Ritalin and we had a long talk about how important it was for him not to tell anyone this time. he wanted off of those pills, so he realized how impotant it was.
What a bloody f#ckin way for a kid to have to live, eh!

So, I applied for our dual citizenship, which took about 10 scary months to process, but we headed for the Canadian border 2 months before we recieved our citizenship papers.
I had my mail forwarded here and for a while I recieved threatening letters from DSS, but then the nightmare finally ended.

The battle with DSS and the schools lasted 8 long, miserable years.

I'm glad it's over and we can live free.

Amen
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 12:15 am
JLNobody wrote:
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 02:46 pm
Monti, I had a similar problem as a child. I was "hyperactive" and couldn't concentrate, except on comic books (which helped to learn to read, and fantasies; I was terrible in math (for understandable reasons). My first 12 years of school were a disaster. I got As and art and music (I was concert master of the junior high school orchestra) but Ds and low Cs in everything else. I never remember doing any homework. And when we were given the Iowa Test, I remember deciding to just mark the answers randomly so that I did not have make the effort (the test failed to measure effort/attitude).
Anyway, there were no concepts of hyperactivity, ADD and ADHD in those days, so they left me alone (truly a case of benign neglect).
As it turned out I couldn't get into a university after high school and so I went to art school and continued my studies of the violin. One day when I was 27 I met an American junior college professor vacationing in Mexico City. He talked me into giving junior college a try. I did and soon ended up with a Ph.D. from a major university--without ritalin.
Expect a lot from your boy, and not much from the "authorities."
I also have two friends who were diagnosed as children with significant degrees of retardation. One ended up being the dean of a college in my university and the other became a well known researcher and provost of a different university.
I admire you advocacy on behalf of your son.
In some cases, however, parents can harm their children when some ideological committment causes them to decline needed and legitimate medical treatment for their children's life threatening disease. It is hard, I guess, to distinguish the good from the less good expressions of resistance.
0 Replies
 
stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 03:52 pm
Quote:
Furthermore, the "at least once in a lifetime" statistic is meaningless in terms of determining who actually uses marijuana on more than an occasional basis


Yes, but who says "who uses it on a regular basis" is not the only important statistic here? How often do you go skydiving? Probably not very often. But you might want to do it once in your lifetime, without having to break the law.

Steve, good points. I can understand the need to ban highly addictive drugs that turn people into lawless, mindless zombies. However, marijuana is not highly addictive...and any correlation that it may have to trying harder drugs is merely a correlation.

The law must be drawn at the point where a person's choice crosses the boundary between harm to the rest of society.

If a person chooses to take a drug which is highly addictive and which can cause them to be more probable to act in a way that is harmful to society, then the law must therefore be drawn at taking that drug. This is basically the same as the DUI law...

The law cannot be reasonably draw BEFORE this point, however. For example, you cannot make it illegal to be friends with a person who has previously taken drugs just because that increases your chances of doing drugs with them. And likewise, you do not have a reasonable argument to make it illegal to smoke pot just because you are more likely to want to try something else later on.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 04:21 pm
Is not partially hydrogenated oil (transfats) more dangerous to our health than marijuana?
0 Replies
 
stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 04:54 pm
The dangers to your health are irrelevant. Only the dangers you might cause to others' health are relevant.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Oct, 2006 02:08 am
Montana wrote:
Ok, here's my story for whom may be interested.

Thanks, Montana! I felt a little guilty that I kept bringing you up as an example in explaining why I mistrust governmental drug enforcement. It's good that people heard it from the horse's mouth now.
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Oct, 2006 08:10 am
Montana

That story is very frightening. I am very glad that you managed to escape the facist attitudes of the government.
You probably saved your son from life in hell. ADHD medicine is made from amphetamine among other things. It's addictive and one person I know who's been taking it is more and more like a vegetable each time I see him.

Albert Einstein couldn't talk properly until age thirteen, and he was a bed wetter until his early twenties. What would be the result if someone put him on some sort of medication?
0 Replies
 
stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Oct, 2006 08:19 am
What a chilling story. It's enraging!
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Oct, 2006 07:37 am
JLNobody wrote:
Monti, I had a similar problem as a child. I was "hyperactive" and couldn't concentrate, except on comic books (which helped to learn to read, and fantasies; I was terrible in math (for understandable reasons). My first 12 years of school were a disaster. I got As and art and music (I was concert master of the junior high school orchestra) but Ds and low Cs in everything else. I never remember doing any homework. And when we were given the Iowa Test, I remember deciding to just mark the answers randomly so that I did not have make the effort (the test failed to measure effort/attitude).
Anyway, there were no concepts of hyperactivity, ADD and ADHD in those days, so they left me alone (truly a case of benign neglect).
As it turned out I couldn't get into a university after high school and so I went to art school and continued my studies of the violin. One day when I was 27 I met an American junior college professor vacationing in Mexico City. He talked me into giving junior college a try. I did and soon ended up with a Ph.D. from a major university--without ritalin.
Expect a lot from your boy, and not much from the "authorities."
I also have two friends who were diagnosed as children with significant degrees of retardation. One ended up being the dean of a college in my university and the other became a well known researcher and provost of a different university.
I admire you advocacy on behalf of your son.
In some cases, however, parents can harm their children when some ideological committment causes them to decline needed and legitimate medical treatment for their children's life threatening disease. It is hard, I guess, to distinguish the good from the less good expressions of resistance.


JL, I'm glad everything worked out for you and your friends. Of course I would have never kept needed medication from my son, but Ritalin certainly wasn't needed.
6 months before I left the US, I bought a webTV and was on the internet for the first time, where I did extensive research on Ritalin and what I learned about the dangers of the drug totaly blew my mind.
I couldn't believe the government wanted me to give this to my little boy!
My son wasn't even hyperactive. He just couldn't get the math.

When we got to Canada, I decided to home school my son and I was amazed at what he did know. After years of the schools having me believe that he was having trouble in all areas, I found that the only problem he had was with math and I had no problem teaching him in that area.
The schools didn't want to supply the funding to put my son in a special class for math with less students, so they decided it was easier to drug him.
The schools didn't have any authority to suggest any medication for my son, yet they did and they did often.
The more I fought, the more they made calls to DSS.
The school counselor told my son one day that I had given up on him because I wasn't willing to give the "medication (Ritalin)" a chance.

I can't even describe what these people did to my our emotional state and I will never, ever forget.

My son is 19 now and gosh, darnit, he survived without Ritalin Very Happy

Amen!
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Oct, 2006 07:42 am
Thomas wrote:
Montana wrote:
Ok, here's my story for whom may be interested.

Thanks, Montana! I felt a little guilty that I kept bringing you up as an example in explaining why I mistrust governmental drug enforcement. It's good that people heard it from the horse's mouth now.


Anytime, Thomas. No reason to feel guilty at all, as I've brought it up several times myself because I feel that people need to be informed.
Just knowing that the government has this much power over us is something to keep in mind, me thinks ;-)
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Oct, 2006 07:46 am
Here in norway we have similar things.

My girfriend has some psychological problems, and one time the psychiatrists decided that she had to be medicated. Well, she refused, knowing full well the harmful effects that these pills have, and as a result she was cut off. No unemployment check, no social welfare, no nothing until she would accept the medicine.

She never did accept, and she is still struggling with her problems, and making progress. I just keep thinking that she'd have an easier job of it if it weren't for the fact that every governmental office tried to cut her off since she refused to cooperate.

I am angry at these pretentious pricks who think they know what helps. I know a few people who've accepted medication, and they all say the same thing. The drugs don't remove the problem. They just lower the perceptional threshold so that the problems go unnoticed. The price to pay is walking around in a constant haze, cut off from feeling and emotion. What a price to pay.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Oct, 2006 07:54 am
Cyracuz wrote:
Montana

That story is very frightening. I am very glad that you managed to escape the facist attitudes of the government.
You probably saved your son from life in hell. ADHD medicine is made from amphetamine among other things. It's addictive and one person I know who's been taking it is more and more like a vegetable each time I see him.

Albert Einstein couldn't talk properly until age thirteen, and he was a bed wetter until his early twenties. What would be the result if someone put him on some sort of medication?


Yeah, it's crazy to think they want children on these "zombie" pills. <scratchs head>.
I also read somewhere that Einstein would have been diagnosed with ADHD. Go figure!

When my son was in his last few years of public schools, he would tell me about some kids in school who were snorting their Ritalin, like snorting cocaine and some were just taking more.
I'm talking 10, 11, 12 year old kids and they are already addicts.

God forbid if they get caught with a joint, though Shocked

Anyway, the Canadian government has been good to me so far, so all is finally well :-D
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Oct, 2006 08:00 am
Cyracuz wrote:
Here in norway we have similar things.

My girfriend has some psychological problems, and one time the psychiatrists decided that she had to be medicated. Well, she refused, knowing full well the harmful effects that these pills have, and as a result she was cut off. No unemployment check, no social welfare, no nothing until she would accept the medicine.

She never did accept, and she is still struggling with her problems, and making progress. I just keep thinking that she'd have an easier job of it if it weren't for the fact that every governmental office tried to cut her off since she refused to cooperate.

I am angry at these pretentious pricks who think they know what helps. I know a few people who've accepted medication, and they all say the same thing. The drugs don't remove the problem. They just lower the perceptional threshold so that the problems go unnoticed. The price to pay is walking around in a constant haze, cut off from feeling and emotion. What a price to pay.


Hey, just tell her to accept them and she can simply flush them when she gets home.

I hear what you're saying and my heart goes out to you and your girlfriend.

It's all a money racket and they don't give a rats ass that people are dying on these meds!
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Oct, 2006 08:11 am
Thomas wrote:
In fact, our fellow member Montana, who I hope still follows this thread, had a rather ugly experience in which the elected government of Massachusetts was pushing a highly potent drug on her son. If she feels like it -- and I hope she does -- maybe she can tell you what happend when she refused to go along with it. I think that you, just as joefromchicago, profess an incredibly naive optimism about the actual people who run the government in a democracy. The two of you must be very optimistic about human nature, judging by your trust in the government preventing and enforcing the consumption of drugs.

As compelling as Montana's personal story might be, I'm not sure why it's relevant to a discussion about legalizing marijuana. Perhaps someone could explain that to me.

As for my "naive optimism" about the people who run the government, Thomas, it is nothing compared with your naive optimism in the overall rationality of human beings.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Oct, 2006 08:22 am
I think it's relevant because, while the government says no to marijuana, they're condoning and pushing drugs on children that fall into the same class of drug as cocaine.

I'd certainly rather see my son smoke grass than to be on Ritalin.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Oct, 2006 08:38 am
Montana wrote:
I think it's relevant because, while the government says no to marijuana, they're condoning and pushing drugs on children that fall into the same class of drug as cocaine.

I'd certainly rather see my son smoke grass than to be on Ritalin.

Well, if you're saying that the government is wrong about Ritalin, then that suggests it's right about marijuana. On the other hand, if Ritalin and marijuana are not comparable, then I still don't know why your situation is relevant to this discussion.
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Oct, 2006 08:56 am
Montana.

Thank you for your concern. And I am very happy to hear that you managed to keep your son out of harm's way. An inspiring story.

Btw, to finish the story of my girlfriend.
She never accepted the meds, and now, after months of struggle she's found a psychologist who is willing to listen to her, and help her solve her own problems rather than trying to mend it for her. He's very helpful, and I have noticed how she's better for it.


Joefromchicago

There is a relevance in this story to the topic. The main reason that marijhuana is illegal is pressure from certain interest groups who stand to lose a lot of money if this drug were to enter the legal market. Beer producers for one.
Another thing is that marijhuana tends to expand the user's horizon if used with care, and people who can think for themselves is probably the single most dangerous thing to our western societies. What would happen to our production frenzies if most of us came to realize that we don't really need any of the crap we're spewing out?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

How can we be sure? - Discussion by Raishu-tensho
Proof of nonexistence of free will - Discussion by litewave
Destroy My Belief System, Please! - Discussion by Thomas
Star Wars in Philosophy. - Discussion by Logicus
Existence of Everything. - Discussion by Logicus
Is it better to be feared or loved? - Discussion by Black King
Paradigm shifts - Question by Cyracuz
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.57 seconds on 12/21/2024 at 08:37:05