It's your Dime

Baldi, the point is that veterans have to stand in line behind illegal immigrants and prisoners for healthcare. The money sent to Iraq is not spent on veterans' benefits. In fact, as I recall, in the current budget they are planning to cut vets benefits -- again. It's perfectly logical to take umbrage with the amount of money being spent in Iraq AND the lack of benefits for veterans as they are two separate things.

You are correct that they are two seperate issues and one has nothing to do with the other. That's why I am wondering why they keep getting brought up together.

Last time I visited the VA hospital with my dad, I do not recall seeing any illegal aliens OR prisoners standing in line.

Perhaps you can tell me where you saw, heard, read about it.

McG, I was referring to the article that ci posted.

What does it matter about the quality of health care if in the end only the very rich get the quality of health care and the rest on medicaid get sub quality health and the middle class get no health care because we can't afford to pay for it?

Come up with a plan then.

Socialized medicine is not the plan.

Perhaps some tort reform might bring the ever increasing cost of medical care down.

Always blaming the wealthy is not going to solve anything though. My answer to you would be to become wealthy if that's all you are going to complain about.

Hold your horses! 'Socialized medicine' can refer to many things. Why be so quick to dismiss all forms of it? You've asked her to come up with a plan while dismissing any plan that could be considered 'socialized'. Maybe you have a plan in mind?


Almost completely unrelated:

What would happen if health insurance companies were forced to be structured as non-profit?

Most already are.

Well, that's news to me. Which insurance companies are non-profit corporations?

Certainly, they wouldn't pay taxes. Non-profit corps don't. Second, they would probably go away. Which might be what would happen in the entire health care structure became non-profit.

Did he seriously say that insurance companies are non profit?

BTW, MGC, this accusing game is the same one played in the Iraq issue. I have loads of relatives who are rich and more power to them. That is not the point as you more than likely well know.

I can't come up with a solution and I shouldn't have to that is why we elect people to represent us who can come up with solutions, ideally.

Agreed, they wouldn't pay federal income taxes since corporation income taxes are based on profit. They might still pay local business taxes, but that wouldn't amount to much.



I'm not sure I follow you on this one though, and it might be something very obvious, but why would they probably go away?

Insurance companies work for profit, Doctors, lab techs, etc. work for profit. I work for profit. Quit paying me, and I'm going to go home.

I know there are non profit corps out there, but they are usually special interest: religious, charitable, political, or something.

Well, there would still be insurance companies, I suppose. Maybe of the mutual structure, but most people do their best work when getting paid.

Actually, I'm kind of sorry I said they would all go away. Outside the US, it seems that much of the health care systems are not for profit, but I can't see what motivates people to go into health care and work around sick people all day.

I don't know, if the insurance companies were not for profit, they'd still have to pay everyone else. I happen to work for a very odd non-profit corporation that does govey contracting. We all get paid. The company even gets paid more for my work than I do, but that money gets funneled into overhead and r&d so that the company never posts a profit. Since the corporation itself is not a person, it doesn't care that it doesn't get paid. I guess the question would be how to get the initial investment to start it up. I'll have to find out how that happened for my company.

But yeah, I don't know why anyone would go into health care, but thankfully many people do.

An example of a non-profit insurance comapny.

Good example. (Still doesn't show that most insurance companies are non-profit, like you said, but I'll let you off the hook) So it certainly can work. Notice their principles:

Another interesting link with lots of reading about non-profit insurance companies.

http://www.nonprofithealthcare.org/

Admittedly I know nothing about this -- just thought it was an interesting idea. Apparently these people do too.

Baldimo, You probably ignored that part of the article I posted about "pentagon waste."

Who was it that was talking about how great socialized medicine in Canada was?
_______________________________________________________

CALGARY - The father of a nine-year-old boy suffering from a rare genetic illness says his son is caught up in government bureaucracy that could cost him his life, after the federal government refused to pay for his expensive experimental treatment.

"To let a small child suffer for politics? Funding? Does that make sense to anyone?" Raymond Amato said.

His son, Mackenzie Olsen, has Hurler-Scheie Syndrome, which is caused by the lack of an enzyme called a-L-iduronidase.

The enzyme helps the body recycle cells after they die. Without it, cells don't break down and cell deposits are stored in virtually every cell of the body. This causes progressive damage to the heart, bones, joints, and respiratory and central nervous systems.

The boy has been part of an international clinical trial for three years, receiving the drug - which costs $17,000 a week - for free. Amato says the drug eats up the buildup of toxins and keeps Olsen's body from swelling.

But the trial is over, and because Olsen is from the Siksika First Nation, the province won't cover the cost, saying it's a federal responsibility.

Health Canada says the drug is under review, so it won't pay for it.

The boy has about 50 per cent of his sight and hearing, but can live a relatively normal life and go to school as long as he is taking the drug.

Federal Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh said despite the urgency of the case, it's up to the drug review panel to make the decision.

"I understand the angst and anxiety but I must tell you there's a process that's involved before that happens," Dosanjh said. "It is a common drug review that provinces and the federal government engage in to determine which drugs can be paid for, based on whether or not those drugs are beneficial."

The Assembly of First Nations doesn't buy that argument.

"We want somebody to take up the responsibility, otherwise the blood is going to be on somebody's hands," Alberta regional chief Jason Goodstriker said.

The assembly has written to federal and provincial health officials, as well as the pharmaceutical manufacturer, urging them to continue the treatment.

source

That's really no different than our system. Insurance companies, as a general rule, will not pay for experimental treatment.