Me too, I like not having to know and just needing to feel.
CodeBorg wrote:I think it's the only rational state.
Yes, but as Mr. Bacon said, it is a place to start. To which I might add: 'proceed with caution.'
[qutoe]Yes, but can the soul exist independent of the body?[/quote]
I think so.
thunder_runner32 wrote:Quote:Yes, but can the soul exist independent of the body?
I think so.
Then prove it! C'mon thunder, I've been on your side through most of this.
He's gonna have a hard time proving the soul can e[ist independent of the body. Sorry, but this keyboard doesn't have a '+'.
If a soul is ones "attitude", and attitudes are contagious,
then it's easy for a soul to jump from person to person and live forever.
If a soul is ones main "principle" that they live by, and you surround yourself with like-minded people,
then the group of people who support that principle share and support your very soul.
If a soul is ones aesthetic style or appreciation of life,
then any student who studies and understands that style,
is participating in it, and holding it for you.
Surely you can think of many(!) more possiblilities
if you put your heart and soul into it.
PS -- Putting your heart into something does NOT mean extracting 32 grams of meat from your chest. Can you prove that?? Can you prove that you have a heart or that you care about something? Can you place your "concerns" onto a physical measuring scale to see how heavy they are?
CodeBorg, I believe we are talking about 'soul' being in one individual. Does the soul live after the body is dead?
Absolutely yes.
Your reputation, the idea of who you are and what you stand for,
is an incredibly powerful and influential force.
It exists in the social world, and the spiritual world, the spirit in which you lived your life,
but you won't find your "reputation" in your Medula Oblingata or any other part of your brain.
Yet it is "you", the public you, albeit not the private you.
And it's only as immortal as the public remembers you.
That's one model, and it works.
PS - The Dalai Lama exists in many people. When the current "official" Dalai Lama dies, they search for his reincarnation and find it in dozens of children. But they choose only one of the children anyways, just to get the job done.
Where does your soul exist? If you define it as your index finger, for example, then there you have it.
If you define it as an attitude or a Way of Being, then there it is.
The question you ask is pre-loaded with whatever narrow answer you seek!
So go ahead and define a soul as one little narrow Christian thing ... and that's exactly what you'll have, ignoring all other possibilities and realizations.
Codeborg, interesting. I like it. You are the first person to make me think my original proposition could be wrong. Thank you !!
cicerone imposter wrote:He's gonna have a hard time proving the soul can e[ist independent of the body. Sorry, but this keyboard doesn't have a '+'.
Is this what you were looking for?
X
If he ever needs to "mark the spot" he's gonna be in serious trouble.
CodeBorg wrote:Your reputation, the idea of who you are and what you stand for,
is an incredibly powerful and influential force.
It exists in the social world, and the spiritual world, the spirit in which you lived your life,
but you won't find your "reputation" in your Medula Oblingata or any other part of your brain.
Yet it is "you", the public you, albeit not the private you.
And it's only as immortal as the public remembers you.
That's one model, and it works.
Unfortunately that is not what people tend to mean by 'soul.' They refer to some supernatural entity.
agrote, I respectfully disagree.
Some individuals are so focussed on their jobs (for instance) that they *are* their jobs. If you ask them how they are, they talk only about their work, with no other concept of "self". They have lost themselves into their work and have actually, truly, become their work.
Other people define themselves by their role in raising a family.
Other people define themselves by how they look.
Or by how "rich and famous" they are.
Others, by what their emotions consist of.
And some, by how a whole group of living things are being together.
Each person has a different idea of "self" - what or who they actually are. Every individual has a different model of how the universe works and what "they" are in it. So, we're free to choose whatever concept of a "soul" makes sense to us. I find many definitions that actually work quite well, that are consistent with how people use the word, and are practical and useful.
For a "soul" to represent who we are, our true self, our very identity as a person . . . each person has to decide for themself what their identity is.
I've never heard two people define a "soul" the same way, so it's really up for grabs!
Secondly, a supernatural entity is defined as anything that doesn't exist. Anything that violates nature, or operates outside of the universe, outside of what's defined as "everything". For you yourself to be supernatural is illogical.
I can't tell you who you are. That's completely up to you, to tell me. But I'm pretty sure you yourself do exist.
neologist, Thanks for the "X." The internet cafe in Europe just didn't have "x" on the keyboard, and it's rather complicated to try and change computers once you log onto one with your log on number. I'm now home, and back to the 'normal' American keyboard.
CodeBorg, Your ideas about 'soul' have made me realize that my definition of soul is rather myopic and wrong. Thanks for sharing your ideas on this subject. This is the reason why I enjoy a2k so much; it makes us think of other ways to think about something that we hadn't thought of before.
The atomic second of our lifetime as we are aware of compared between the 'heavens and earth' is so diminutive a crack of light in comparison, there is a natural tendency to wish, hope or believe that a continuance of existence is apparent.
Religion in general promises an after life, it helps keep the membership strong.
Normal desires, even an expression of what one may consider to be common sense lean towards continuity.
History proves to us that for thousands of years this has been a thought of mankind, trinkets, weapons, personal possessions interred with the corpse etc. even murals depicting the ongoing life of the soul or spirit.
I suppose, 'We shall have to wait and see."
Quote:I can't tell you who you are. That's completely up to you, to tell me. But I'm pretty sure you yourself do exist.
That's really interesting, I think that is in part why we can never truly
know someone. I can only see as much of you as you are willing to show me.
thunder_runner, A good point; do we really know anybody? We can only rely on our observation which can be subjectively wrong by degrees. Where is that true person? What we see externally, or that person that hides behind their persona?
What true person would that be?
The one I am right now, or the one I was yesterday...or an hour ago?
I don't think one can even truly know oneself, for to do so would cause a change that would then alter who you were anyway!
EorI, I think people change by some degree, but there seems to be some agreement that people really don't change much from who they were as children. Of coarse environment and gene plays a big part in a person's personality, but the basic person probably remains pretty much in tact - I believe.
