There is no soul or spirit at all...

thunder_runner32 wrote:

We learn it from the bible. I'd say that's pretty good evidence.

Are you sure we didn't learn it from Lord Of The Rings? :wink:

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Yeah, but thunder, ANIMALS are souls and posess bodies. Are you saying there really is a doggie heaven?

I'm not sure why they would ever be punished, but I can't say I know what God does with their souls.

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Then you're extremely naive.

Well, I believe the rest of the bible is correct, it has never been proven wrong, then it is natural that I would believe that we are souls.

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Are you sure we didn't learn it from Lord Of The Rings?

I'm pretty sure...

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I'm not sure that everyone has a soul or possesses a spirit - but I most definitely think some people do. I think I do, though I couldn't tell you where it resides and I don't think that matters- and it has nothing at all to do with religion. But I define my soul and/or spirit as that which makes me me. And the fact that some people seem soulless or spiritless - and we've all met them, haven't we - is part of what makes them them. I tend to be more drawn to people who exhibit at least some small amount of a soul, although intelligence can be just as attractive. :wink: I think if you want to have a soul or spirit you can - but if you don't want to or see the need to - you won't. I'm not basing this on any books/movies/research - just on what my particular soul/spirit tells me- and that's enough for me - although I fully understand it won't be enough for most folks. But you did ask Eorl.

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I think if you want to have a soul or spirit you can - but if you don't want to or see the need to - you won't.

How do your mere wants affect reality?

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thunder_runner32 wrote:

How do your mere wants affect reality?

Excellent point! Exclamation

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That is a good question.
My "wants" have affected what has become my reality my entire life, because what I have wanted has directed my efforts and focus in particular directions. I never wanted to be famous - so I didn't pursue notoriety or fame- the reality is that I'm not famous. I did want to be musical - so I took piano lessons- and the reality for me is that I am musical. It wouldn't have happened if I hadn't first "wanted" it.

I think if people want to or are interested in pursuing the spiritual and soul-filled part of their existence - they will definitely become more enlightened to and aware of that part of their existence than if they determine it doesn't exist and is of no importance to them. Does that make any sense? And you can tell me if you think it's all hogwash. I can live with that too. :wink:

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With a caveat. You must make sure your wants are consistent with reality.

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aidan wrote:

That is a good question.
My "wants" have affected what has become my reality my entire life, because what I have wanted has directed my efforts and focus in particular directions. I never wanted to be famous - so I didn't pursue notoriety or fame- the reality is that I'm not famous. I did want to be musical - so I took piano lessons- and the reality for me is that I am musical. It wouldn't have happened if I hadn't first "wanted" it.

I think if people want to or are interested in pursuing the spiritual and soul-filled part of their existence - they will definitely become more enlightened to and aware of that part of their existence than if they determine it doesn't exist and is of no importance to them. Does that make any sense? And you can tell me if you think it's all hogwash. I can live with that too. :wink:

Well your actions have been results of your earthly desires...not sure how you were ever able to alter your soul...

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thunder_runner32 wrote:

How do your mere wants affect reality?

If I want a biscuit, I'll go and get one. I'll really go and get one. Laughing

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agrote wrote:

thunder_runner32 wrote:
How do your mere wants affect reality?

If I want a biscuit, I'll go and get one. I'll really go and get one.

Sorry; all we have today is scones.

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I gather that's your way of saying you think I'm full of hogwash, huh? I very well may be...

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aidan wrote:

I gather that's your way of saying you think I'm full of hogwash, huh? I very well may be...

You can't be faulted for looking in a comfortable direction. You just have to be aware of what might be coming from another direction which may bite you on the butt.

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aidan wrote:

I gather that's your way of saying you think I'm full of hogwash, huh? I very well may be...

I just don't think we can decide whether we have a soul or not, because I think that we are souls, and that we posess bodies.

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Yes, but can the soul exist independent of the body?

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thunder_runner32 wrote:

aidan wrote:
I gather that's your way of saying you think I'm full of hogwash, huh? I very well may be...

I just don't think we can decide whether we have a soul or not, because I think that we are souls, and that we posess bodies.

Yeah - I heard a really interesting play on the radio today (BBC 4 - they do some incredible stuff) on the subject of cloning which spoke to that very point. It was a fictional play but it brought up some fascinating concepts and I thought it was interesting.

I guess it would have been more accurate for me to say some people aren't aware they have a soul - and that you can make the choice to become aware.

But still, even there - I don't feel comfortable telling other people that I know more about who they are and what they might or not possess than they do.

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aidan wrote:

I guess it would have been more accurate for me to say some people aren't aware they have a soul - and that you can make the choice to become aware.

But still, even there - I don't feel comfortable telling other people that I know more about who they are and what they might or not possess than they do.

Curious . . . It's a matter of frameworks. Have you ever noticed that these same people can also say the same about you - that they know more about you than you do?

It's most often the case that two different people know more than each other, simultaneously.
Sounds odd, but have you seen that from time to time?

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Yes CodeBorg - all the time because I've noticed that everyone seems to be more sure about everything than I am. I'm not sure about anything - except what I know that I feel...

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aidan wrote:

Yes CodeBorg - all the time because I've noticed that everyone seems to be more sure about everything than I am. I'm not sure about anything - except what I know that I feel...

A few choice quotes about certainty from my files:
Doubt is not a pleasant state, but certainty is a ridiculous one.
Voltaire

I am frightened by the certainties that reign around me.
Bernard Fontanelle

It is only charlatans who are certain.
Voltaire

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts, but if he be content to begin with doubts, he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

In this world, nothing is certain except death and taxes.
Benjamin Franklin, Letter to M. Leroy, 1789

One thing I know, and that is that I know nothing.
Socrates

The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Albert Einstein

What do I know?
Montaigne

When people are least sure, they are often the most dogmatic.
J.K. Galbraith

Positive: Mistaken at the top of one's voice.
Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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Thanks Neologist - now I can be certain about one thing - that my state of uncertainty is not a shameful or invalid state to be in. :wink:

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I think it's the only rational state.

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There is no soul or spirit at all...

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