13
   

Before Hurricane, Trump Admin Diverted FEMA Money To ICE Baby Jails

 
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 10:02 am
@Blickers,
Blickers, I don't know what your 12% has to do with anything, I don't deny that your calculation is correct... it is simply irrelevant. You are being silly.

According to your own chart, 45,704 unaccompanied minors showed up at the border in a year. That is actually higher than the number I gave. And it is much higher than the number of children separated from their family (which everyone gives as 2,600).

The problem of unaccompanied minors is not new. Tens of thousands of unaccompanied children showed up on the border each year during the Obama administration. And Obama needed additional funding to deal with this problem.

Does anyone want to suggest how to address this problem in a sane way?

Having tens of thousands of children show up at the border alone, unannounced and without documentation is the definition of insane.

camlok
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 10:05 am
@Blickers,
Quote:
And then you loudly perpetrate this atrocity and try to put yourself up as someone who can lecture others about truth.


There's a lot of that going around, eh, Blickers. Look in a mirror. You cover for many atrocities, including ones perpetrated upon your own. As if they have any more importance than any of the children or adults of Iraq, Afghanistan, ... .
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 10:23 am
@maxdancona,
Quote max:
Quote:
Blickers, I don't know what your 12% has to do with anything, I don't deny that your calculation is correct... it is simply irrelevant. You are being silly.

You said: "2. Most of these kids are coming alone (without parents)."
My chart proved it was 12%. The Trump Administration is lying its head off on Twitter and in press conferences making it seem that these kids don't come with their parents, but almost all of them do come with their parents. Then they get separated at the border by the US authorities, then the Trump Administration loudly proclaims them as "unaccompanied", as if they made the trek alone.

Then you come on here and say how ashamed you are that Trump's critics are unaware of the real situation. You've become part of the lie.

maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 10:32 am
@Blickers,
I meant that most of the kids in detention are unaccompanied minors (not children who came with their parents).

I am correct in saying that.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 10:36 am
@Blickers,
The Democratic party specifically, and liberals in general, are going to have to get over Trump. If all they stand for is how "deplorable" Trump supporters are, they aren't going to make any progress.

I have yet to see anything on this issue other than "Trump is bad (or a Nazi)". There is no intelligent discussion on the problem.

That is problem with liberals... all outrage, no thoughtful discussion on how to address real issues.
revelette1
 
  4  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 10:38 am
@maxdancona,
I guess the proof of your empty assertions will be in votes this November. Already in special elections we have done pretty good.
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 10:43 am
@revelette1,
Indeed. One look at the special elections since Trump took office shows a double-digit swing toward the Democratic candidates.

https://i.imgur.com/JSWTMMm.jpg
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 10:48 am
@camlok,
You really shouldn't pontificate on stuff you know nothing about. There is a difference between whinging and whining, otherwise we wouldn't use both terms. Most people here know you're a complete ignoramus but there may be those who don't know you're full of it.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 10:51 am
@maxdancona,
Quote max:
Quote:
That is problem with liberals... all outrage, no thoughtful discussion on how to address real issues.

Oddly, we didn't seem to have a problem with overflowing detention centers before Trump took office. As the chart shows, there isn't any great upswelling of immigrants since he took office, but we seem to have cages full of kids and people after he did-with no great increase in immigration.

How does that happen? (actually the posts here tell you why).

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/2018-totals-swb.png

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 12:03 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

I guess the proof of your empty assertions will be in votes this November. Already in special elections we have done pretty good.


I think the Democrats are going to do very well in November. This is because the Republicans (and Trump in particular) are acting like idiots too. Just because I am very critical of the Democrats doesn't mean that I support the Republicans.

I fear for 2020 for the Democrats... and my fear is justified. It was not only Trump, in the past several election cycles Democrats have had problems on every level of government. Identity politics and the continual outrage coming from the left are not good politics. Even more... they are not good for the country or for the national discourse.

Look at where we are. On one side are angry mostly White men screaming in red hats. On the other side are angry most White women screaming in pink hats. Our national discourse has become angry White people in different colored hats just screaming at each other.


maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 12:04 pm
@Blickers,
How many kids in US custody are there in "cages" right now? I bet the answer is close to zero.

You are doing the "everyone I don't like is a Nazi" thing again.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 12:28 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
Oddly, we didn't seem to have a problem with overflowing detention centers before Trump took office.


This is easy to disprove. From NPR in 2015 (while Trump was still just a reality TV star).

Quote:
The Obama administration is under growing pressure to change its policies governing the detention of thousands of migrants who came to the United States illegally.

Maybe it is a coincidence, but consider what has happened this past week:

--The American Immigration Council and the American Civil Liberties Union announced a class-action lawsuit challenging the conditions of detention in Border Patrol facilities in the Tucson, Ariz., region. Scores of detainees report being held in unsanitary and frigid cells while being denied adequate food, water, hygiene, medical attention, or access to legal counsel. The lawsuit alleges the Border Patrol's facilities violate constitutional due-process guarantees. It seeks no monetary damages, but rather court-ordered reforms, according to ACLU attorney James Lyall.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 12:34 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote max:
Quote:
How many kids in US custody are there in "cages" right now? I bet the answer is close to zero.

Yeah, thanks to the judge who put a stop to it against the government's efforts.

Just how many immigrants were in custody in 2015-anything like ten thousand? No. Yet immigration across the Southwest Border was not increasing much, if at all.
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 12:38 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote max:
Quote:
On one side are angry mostly White men screaming in red hats. On the other side are angry most White women screaming in pink hats.

You can thank talk radio for a whole generation of angry white screaming men. Only when the other side finally smartens up and fights back do you see a problem.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 12:41 pm
@Blickers,
You can google this yourself rather than just relying on rabid ideological self-righteous anger. But I will do this one for you. Hint: it was, in fact, tens of thousands in 2015. It is higher now, sure.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bf/ADP_Detained_Immigrants_1994-2017.png/600px-ADP_Detained_Immigrants_1994-2017.png


maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 12:50 pm
@Blickers,
I am curious Blickers, did you pay any attention to the immigration issue while Obama was in office?
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 12:51 pm
@maxdancona,
Those are not the numbers for the Southwest Border, which are the immigrants in question. For all we know, the immigrants in your chart could be being held in Cleveland and are being deported because they got busted for selling drugs there.

Please use relevant statistics, don't switch around.

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 01:05 pm
@Blickers,
The argument you seem to be making is that Trump supporters are Nazis. I don't know what statistics are relevant to that. Actually, other than wildly attacking Trump, I don't really know what your point is.

The points I am making are.

- There is a problem with immigrants, including unaccompanied minors, coming across the border that predates the Trump administration.

- It is insane to have any policy to support this system, where children show up at the border alone, without notification and without documentation.

- It is true that numbers of kids in detention are higher under Trump. It is not true that these detention centers are anything like Nazi death camps.

- The liberal outrage machine has yet to offer a reasonable solution to the underlying problem. Yelling about hurricanes is simply a ridiculous diversion.

- Liberals should stand for something other than attacking Trump and his supporters. Their failure to do this is the reason that Trump is president.
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 01:36 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote max:
Quote:
Actually, other than wildly attacking Trump, I don't really know what your point is.

My points are clear. Trump is justifying putting over ten thousand people in cages at the Southwest Border in cages because of an order he made that all illegal immigrants get arrested, not just turned away. As a result, the number of kids in cages swelled right up. Trump took a circumstance which was no better or worse than the situation Obama faced, and the problem skyrocketed because of his Get Tough policy.

Trump has defended this policy by claiming that most of the immigrant kids came alone, that's why they're in cages until the government figures out what to do with them. He has pushed this lie publicly. You have repeated this lie, and used it to castigate the liberals who are calling Trump's statements a lie.

Get off your high horse. Trump is lying, and you're backing him up. I'm not about to listen to criticism of the people who are calling Trump's lie a lie.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2018 02:18 pm
@Blickers,
Actually, of course Trump is lying. I have never suggested otherwise.

You are lying too. That's the issue here. This either/or logic isn't valid.
 

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