Freedom at last in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge!

I bought a hybrid Honda Civic, sold my 2-stroke motocross bike, bought a road bike for commuting, underwent some of the 1 ton challenge home renovations supported and meagrely financed by the Canadian government (in the form of pitifully small rebates) and am currently running a recycling program in condominiums and apartments which are otherwise left out of traditional recycling ("blue box") programs run by the city.

I'm pulling a bit of my weight.
But I'm just a liberal who complains about the unimportant aspects of environmental issues.

Let's focus more on Michael Moore and his jet, shall we?

Bravo!

How invasive are the drilling oprations are is indeed a mystery, at least in that environment. In my area, the impact of drilling is almost negligible.

I don't quite follow the comments on supply side, candidone. Restate it and I'll at least consider it.

It isn't invasive enough to damage the whole eco system I bet.....at least no more than the other two oil fields and pipeline which are already in that area.

I'm currently digging up the links...

But for now:
Think about the incompatibilities involved in providing finances to Venezuela, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Indonesia vis a vis oil production/profits and Bush's war on terror.

Thanks.
It's much better than complaining and blaming, I think.

Wouldn't it stand to reason if we were able to drill for and use our own oil that we would slack off of importing of forgein oil? I sure hope so.

Bald:

But what if conservation could net us the same quanity of oil.

But wait, the the Oil industry would'nt have anything to show for their contributions and Auto makers may not be able to produce guzzlers.

PS. My fuel figures are pending--I kinda totalled my '99 Taurus(which could get me 240 miles on 3/4 tank of gas)

DYS made the correct statement. The estimates on oil volume up there are all over the book. To shut this up, there has to be minimally invasive test drilling on the coastal plain , coupled with vibroseis. If theres only 5 billion barrels, its not worth F*in up the area like Prudhoe Bay. Prudhoe Bay looks like a used car lot with ipe racks and steam machines and metal crap all over. Nobody really gives a damn. Last time I was at Prudhoe was in 1998 and then it looked like hell in large clusters. In ANWR they are planning to do slant drilling (If the oil is there in recoverable patches). Im more in favor of deeper drilling in the Gulf, offshore in the Florida coastal plain , and developing the new finds like the Trenton fields in NY and PA.
Theres a neat technology from Penn State, its called JP900, its a distillate of bituminous and its able to supply jet fuel needs with a highly stable, safer JP that can be used by military and commercial jets.

http://www.psu.edu/ur/2004/jp900.html

I guess Im not against finding out whether oil exists in ANWR but I havent seen a clean field yet, so Id cap it and keep it as a reserve .

Farmer:

I may even accept that, as long as there's a CAFE increase and maybe incentives for public transit thrown in.

neo-Im even more radical. I think CAFE standards are a real sham. In many other countries they deal with fuel efficiencies of individual models, not the fleet

Yes, that much is obvious. Yet, it is still a finite resource, and I was questioning the necessity of meeting the demand by drilling in a portion of ANWR. Farmerman essentially says it isn't. Factoring in both knowledge and absence of bias (he ain't got a dog in this fight, as Set would say) I'm going to accept that.

There are huge incentives to use clean fuel technology. You get a federal tax write off for buying the car, there are states and cities that are also offering tax incentives for buying fuel clean cars. I know for a fact that Arizona will just about give you a full reimbursement if you convert your car or truck to natural gas. My uncle had it done and received the cash.

Seems to me that it would make sense to make use of domestic oil AND find ways to decrease the dependancy on it. IMO that is a win, win situation.

Re: Freedom at last in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge!


The Porcupine Caribou Herd is toast.

Should we reinstate the law that prohibits selling Alaskan oil overseas then?

That may be be a good start...that much less we have to import.

Oil is so perfectly fungible, it is the economics textbook example of the word. Let the economics of the situation determine which barrel is imported, and which is exported.

Roger speak sooth. The movement of a bbl of oil is an Apples for apples commodity, not an issue of nationalism. It wont help us to commandeer our "certified US made" oil and then have the price differential for shipping and handling work against us elsewhere. If then, our oil would be even higher.

Roger, my feelings on Prudhoes housekeeping were my own. Most oil drillers accomodate their messiness with the realization that this is a temporary situation (less than 50 years). They do post enormous "post drilling reclamation" bonds. These are interest bearing funds that, when the time comes, will be dipped into to plug borings, hammer out casing, remove all crap and oil crud, and restore the environment.In the spirit of full disclosure , I must say that
I just never liked the "college dormroom" look to the drill and thermal shipping sites. When I was there, it was to buy used "N' rods for our own metal ore drilling elsewhere. So my reminiscences of an old US junkyard (except over 10s of thousands of acres) was from my experience at driving for 50 miles looking and spray painting drill stems lying all over the area. I suppose if you were to drive the old turqoise trail E of Albaturkey some of the old ghost mining towns would appear downright picturesque 100 years later.

I dont know, Im just amazed at how much the brew ha is about when we dont even know how much oil is there.
Weve recently (in the last 4 years) made some major gas and potential LNG type fuels finds in the middle Appalachians and this stuff is as much as all the natural gas in the Kuwait Arabia, gulf fields. Its friggin huuuge. Its been sitting there for about 400 million years and nobody thought to look because it was a crummy limestone.
I see us quickly converting to a number of fuels that span the "fossil to something else" fuel economies.
Im excited about
LNG
JP900
biodeisel
methane/propane autos

All of these have one thing in common, they dont require any new technology on engines and jets r power plants.

I just see that our present admin is as stuck in neutral as all the previous ones on "comprehensive energy policy" , with the exception that this admin is definately " pro supply theory" , and F8ck the other side of the equation. That is just thick headed (or cynically greedy), what the hell, the entire admin is a wildcatters party
IMHO

Yesterday CNN (TV) reported that there is a University of Houston study purporting that if all automobiles in the US were converted to hybrid, it would only make a difference of about 3% in our oil consumption. Something like that. I looked, but couldn't find the study.