Freedom at last in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge!

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Certain members here have openly denied the oil crisis the United States is currently dealing with, contending that the US led war in Iraq truly was Operation Iraqi Freedom, and nothing more.
Well, it appears the northern environment is free from the chains Eisenhower placed around it back in the 60's. Bush has undergone the first steps in emancipating the Arctic Wildlife Refuge.

But this one isn't about the oil either....

Quote:

Senate Votes for Oil Drilling in Alaskan Refuge

Wednesday, March 16, 2005 2:09 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate on Wednesday voted to keep, in a broad federal budget legislation, the language that would open Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) to oil drilling.

The Bush administration wants to give energy companies access to the refuge's billions of barrels of oil to boost domestic supplies and help reduce U.S. dependence on crude imports.

Source

Not sure how much longer Alberta will be subordinated and freed by the US:

Quote:

Although tar sands occur in more than 70 countries, the two largest are Canada and Venezuela, with the bulk being found in four different regions of Alberta, Canada: areas of Athabasca, Wabasha, Cold Lake and Peace River. The sum of these covers an area of nearly 77,000 km2. In fact, the reserve that is deemed to be technologically retrievable today is estimated at 280-300Gb (billion barrels). This is larger than the Saudi Arabia oil reserves, which are estimated at 240Gb. The total reserves for Alberta, including oil not recoverable using current technology, are estimated at 1,700- 2,500Gb

Source

*edited to add last link source*

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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 2,497 • Replies: 45

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There's an 'oil crisis' in the U.S.? Shocked

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Brand X:

Yes, but its a crisis that could be handled better by reducing DEMAND, instead of helping Bush's contributors by making more SUPPLY available.

Of course, there still will need to be a bill to authorize that actual drilling, and I'm sure the Sierra Club, NRDC etc will fight that. Maybe they should be willing to talk and bring out the heavy hitter

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NeoGuin wrote:

Brand X:

Yes, but its a crisis that could be handled better by reducing DEMAND, instead of helping Bush's contributors by making more SUPPLY available.

Of course, there still will need to be a bill to authorize that actual drilling, and I'm sure the Sierra Club, NRDC etc will fight that. Maybe they should be willing to talk and bring out the heavy hitter

What's the crisis? Besides hysteria I mean.

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Clearly, NeoGuin, we need to get control of the demand side of the equation.

Are there enough problems on the supply side that we need to dig into ANWR? I don't know, and honestly don't expect to see any unbiased answers in the near future. Likewise, I am not expecting such unbiased answers on how destructive this drilling would have to be.

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One of the major factors in the 'demand' part of the equation is the production of plastics; and don't expect that to decrease any time soon, as our society is perhaps more dependent on plastics than it is on gasoline....

Cycloptichorn

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Any additional supply would be nice but we don't have the refineries to produce more end product....if we have a crisis that's it IMO.

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Yes, more refineries and fewer of the idiotic blends.

Pick one for everyone and deal with it.

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I don't see any alternative energy sources becoming mainstream as long as motor fuel is as cheap as it is and always has been here. Prolly will change in the next decade.

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Well,

It's hard to say which alternative fuel will be potent enough to power automobiles. Hydrogen isn't as promising as we thought a few years back, and we will need some serious increases in battery storage capability before battery cars are practical for most people. Same goes for solar.

I think you will see gas generators powering electric engines in the 'hybrid' model for quite some time; efficient and the support network exists.

Cycloptichorn

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There are hybrid models, and alternative options available.
It's just way too hard to make that Hummer H2 with an alternative fuel source.
Penises and portfolios will no longer be measurable on city streets if bigger, faster, better ceases to exist.

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I also wonder what would happen if the US had a President who truly thought green (and I don't mean $$$$$), and wasn't shackled (and financially dependent himself) to the oil industry.

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A lot of people can afford big cars.

Why does it seem that liberals never complain about other, more important things though? Like private airplanes for example. Do you have any idea how many Hummers you can fuel for one cross country jaunt by Michael Moore?

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Quote:

A lot of people can afford big cars.

Incorrect. A lot of people can afford to buy big cars. It's the rest of us that have to pay the environmental price for them; and we can't afford it....

Cycloptichorn

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:
A lot of people can afford big cars.

Incorrect. A lot of people can afford to buy big cars. It's the rest of us that have to pay the environmental price for them; and we can't afford it....

Cycloptichorn

Yeah, whatever.

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actually I don't much mind the hummers or any other of the guzzlers (unless they get in my way) what I do mind is the total lack of substantive data showing the need for ANWAR oil or the potential destruction caused by extracting it. This is, imo, become solely a political issue with zero value placed on real information by either side.

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North America has more wilderness land than Africa. I don't see any great detriments in trying to improve our countries resources internally.

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McGentrix wrote:

A lot of people can afford big cars.

Why does it seem that liberals never complain about other, more important things though? Like private airplanes for example. Do you have any idea how many Hummers you can fuel for one cross country jaunt by Michael Moore?

Well, I guess as soon as Michael Moore stops taking private jets, the problem will be solved huh?
Notice how I spoke of wasteful automobiles and excess, and you predictably point your finger to the people standing to your left?

Both liberals and conservatives drive gas guzzlers, both liberals and conservatives fly private jets, both liberals and conservatives have it within their abilities to make those changes.

Yes, I overlooked the "more important" issue of private and chartered planes, but the real important issue with you McG remains the same, blame the left, ignore the problem and offer no solution.

Thanks again for your repeatedly banal response.

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I do my part, do you?

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dyslexia wrote:

what I do mind is the total lack of substantive data showing the need for ANWAR oil or the potential destruction caused by extracting it. This is, imo, become solely a political issue with zero value placed on real information by either side.

The data comes in the form of America's appetite for oil, rising costs from OPEC, and the realization that their demand is not keeping up with supply, and a desire to decrease their "contributions" to unruly oil rich regimes.
It is no mystery how invasive drilling operations are, not to mention their potential for natural disasters/spills in transit/extraction.

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Freedom at last in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge!

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