therapy = depression???

What is the counselor's role? Does the counselor just sit there and listen while your husband complains about his miserable wife and marriage?

I thought the purpose of marriage counseling was to help the couple to restore the love and to learn how to build a better marriage. How is your counselor helping you to meet these goals?

Marriage counseling can serve many purposes. One of the most important is for people to be able to sort out the conflicts in their lives, and take steps to improve that life.

The therapy allows the clients to get a clearer view of what is happening in his/her life. In many cases, therapy can help people to be on the road to "fix" a problem.

"Fixing" the problem, especially in marriages, does not necessarily mean keeping the marriage intact. Obviously the best case scenario, is when the couple resolve their conflicts, and make the marriage stronger. But in some cases, the therapy may just point out that the marriage is not working, and that there are just too many difficulties that one or the other partner is unable or incapable of addressing.

In the case of an untenable marriage, the therapist can help both persons to understand what is happening, accept it, and learn strategies so as to get on with their lives independently.

I think that you are feeling depressed, because you are not getting the outcome that you wanted from this therapy. If you are satisfied with the therapist, I would say stick with that person. Often, after a period of emotional agony, things begin to pull together. Either the marriage will grow stronger through the process, or YOU will understand why the marriage is not working. Either way, you win.

Good luck. As the old saying goes,

"If you want to make an omelet, you have to break some eggs".

Thats what I thought as well. What I was really looking for was someone who will help us rebuild the relationship. I know I cannot expect to see immediate results but I should at least feel good enough to want to go to another session. Basically, I guess my husband is going through some weird times. He thinks he is chronically depressed because it runs in his family. He wants to try and talk to a doctor about going on anti-depressants. The only reason he didn't before is because I don't believe in them. I don't really think he has a problem and that is what made him stand out from the rest of his family. His family all have some psycological problem and I sometimes think that him blaming his problems on a potential chronic depression is an excuse and an easy way out. The one thing I do see though is that he sees that there is a problem and is willing to go through a lot to help fix the problem. That at least shows that he isn't ready for me to be walking out the door just yet.

Kitkat--

In an ideal world with ideal people, marriage counseling would always preserve and revitalize marriages. Unfortunately there are some marriages that cannot be saved.

The job of the counselor is to get both husband and wife to see each other clearly--as well as seeing themselves clearly.

You wrote that this joint session had you depressed and you added:



Your husband thinks he's depressed. There is a documented history of depression in his family. He's been wanting medical help. You don't believe in anti-depressant drugs and you don't think he has a problem.

Speaking as a outsider, I'd think your husband must feel very alone and hopeless. If he seeks medical help, he alienates you. You're asking him to put your theories before his feelings.

You wrote:




Evidently neither of you really care about the other party's feelings. This is very sad.

Ordinarily you would be right about how he must feel about me not believing in drugs. The only problem is, if you knew my husband he doesn't ever communicate his feelings to me. You would also know that he tends to make up excuses for questions he doesn't have answers for. He also tends to run away from every single one of his problems. Knowing this about him it is easy for me to believe that him wanting to go on drugs and telling me that he has a problem would be him making up excuses for his actions and trying to run away from his problems. It is not true that I don't care about his feelings at all but before I agree to him doing something I don't believe in I have to make sure he is doing it for the right reasons.
Another food for thought, when he got depressed when he was a child, his mother gave him zoloft like it was candy because his father is a dentist and can perscribe anything he wants to. Knowing that, she could have made him think he had a problem, or have gotten him addicted to it as a kid.

kitkat--

The Psychological Pharmacuticals available now are wonderful--although they can be misused.

Under supervision--and it is illegal to prescribe most mood-changing drugs without supervision--your husband might have the energy to face his problems.

Granted, you husband promised "to forsake all others" when he married you, but do you really think he should forsake mental health practioners to keep his marriage vows?

Yikes...I see some really serious issues here that go far beyond just "fixing" the marriage. I have no doubt in my mind that your husband DOES suffer from depression and if he indeed does, that could very well be why he withdraws, doesn't comunicate his feelings and feels he has to make up excuses.

You said: "It is not true that I don't care about his feelings at all but BEFORE I AGREE to him doing something I DON'T BELIEVE IN I HAVE TO MAKE SURE HE IS DOING IT FOR THE RIGHT REASONS "

Are you an MD by any chance? A psychologist? A psychiatrist? Why do you have to give your approval to him for wanting to make himself better? Depression is nothing to be ashamed of and your very strong reluctance to his using an anti-depressant reeks of embarassment for YOU. If he a heart condition and needed medication for the rest of his life to keep him alive for as long as possible, would you deny him that too??

Depression is commonly, very commonly genetically found in families and if it a clinical depression, it will not go away on its own. In fact, in most cases, it will never go away.

-----------
National Institute of Mental Health:
18.8 million American adults suffer from clinical depression. That is 9.5% of the adult population

2003 National Comorbidity Study, sponsored by the National Institutes of Health:
- 35 million Americans (more than 16% of the population) suffer from depression severe enough to warrant treatment at some time in their lives.
- In one given period, 13 to 14 million people experience the illness.

19.1 million Americans 18 to 54 years-old suffer from anxiety disorders. This represents 13.3% of this age group. (source: National Institute of Mental Health)

Many of the people who suffer from depression also suffer from anxiety (and vice versa).
----------

Honestly, I think if you were a lot more supportive of his depression instead of just harassing him by saying it is an excuse to act the way he does, he could actually get better and by alleveiating the symptoms of his depression, maybe he wouldn't act the way he does.

Right now he IS getting no support from you. You just want a therapist to fix the problem (and it is obvious that HE is the problem) so you can get back to a perfect Ozzie and Harriet world.

Dang...support him if he wants to talk to a doctor about depression and let the doctor be the one to determine if he does indeed suffer from depression, not you. And how do you know that his mother dispensed zoloft like candy to him?. wERE YOU THERE? And sorry, but the excuse that his mother may have gotten him "addicted" to it, doesnt cut it with me. He was a kid then. He is an adult now. He has been off of it long enough to not feel any addictive tendencies towards it..

Come on, girl....this man you love may is suffering inside and simply because you don't believe in "drugs" as you call them, and he loves you so much that he will abide by your decision about what is good for him and what is not, you could very well be denying him the possibility of living a happy, fulfilling, joyous, loving life with you.

Let him make his own decisins......

On the other hand, not all counselers are equal.

You misunderstand me when I say that I do not believe in drugs. It's not medication I don't believe in, its mind and personality changing drugs. If someone has a "heart condition" then yes of course they need medication. I'm not saying I am preventing him from using them, all I am saying is that I have my doubts. I am not letting my doubts get in the way of what he wants, I just tell him the truth about how I feel if he asks me. He is one of those people who doesn't communicate anything and for him to randomly tell me he thinks he needs anti-depressants, its hard for me to determine if it isn't just one of his ways of making up excuses for his problems. It's not that I don't believe him, I just want to make sure that he really is chronically depressed before he starts up on some drug he doesn't need.

And to answer your question Lady J about how do I know if his mother gave out zoloft like candy? Well you might find this a little interesting. When my husband first came up to me about going on anti-depressants, he was seriously going to ask his mother to start giving him bottles of it. He was going to start taking drugs that his parents were going to perscribe for him. It was ME who told him that he shouldn't be taking drugs from his parents, he should make an appointment to see a REAL doctor who can better analize his condition. There are many types of people and many types of anti-depressants. Some are dangerous. His parents are not psychiatrists either, and after talking to him for a little while I convinced him to make an appointment with someone who could help him.

My former therapist advised me that medicine might help exactly because she observed a tendency in me to run away from problems, and the reason I did/do that is that I am too turmoiled or insecure to (feel that I can) take them on - just like your husband might be too depressed to do so. The medicine would be to grant me the "ground-level" stability, the foundation, that would settle me enough psychologically to be able to face up to and tackle those things I tend to run away from.

It would still be hard and challenging, mind you - no miracle pills - but the medication would help to get stable enough to move on to that level. An old friend of mine told me that was exactly how it worked for her. So the proposed solution and your observation about him don't at all need to be at odds with each other like you perceive them to be.

(After much hemming and hawing I tried a first prescription last week, didnt go well, will be talking about a possible alternative now.)


Or he could really have a problem. If it runs in his family that extensively, it would hardly be unsurprising - research is ever more showing the genetic aspects of this. Why are you so bent on insisting he doesnt have a problem, when all the while you're describing some behaviour that sounds like it might well be some kind of pathological?

Random speculative thought #1: Is it because you embraced him exactly because you thought he didnt have a problem "and that is what made him stand out from the rest of his family"? That it would be pretty confronting to realise he might be like them, in that regard, after all?

Remember, therapy is meant for both partners to face some uncomfortable truths, so they can continue with each other in honesty..

Random speculative thought #2 (that's all they are, that's why I'm labelling them as such): Are you afraid that if he would be condoned to think his behaviour was due to mental illness, you wouldnt be allowed to blame him - or, correction - hold him responsible for it anymore?

You dont have to be, you know. There's a difference between understanding causes for behaviour and excusing it. Even if you would both get to face that he acts like he does partly because he's clinically depressed (or whatever), you would still be in your right to reject behaviour (or even the marriage itself) if it crossed the borders of what you, fundamentally, deem acceptable.

Lastly, this part took me aback:


He needs your approval to go on medicine? Or that is, he is expected to not go on them if you dont "agree to it"? That sounds awfully controlling.

Mental health is no different from physical health. Of course there is abuse of medicine (I'm very reluctant about it myself), and quacks who describe the wrong kinds - but thats true for "physical" doctors as well as mental ones. Both in the end still deal with your health, and your health comes first. Noone should be made to feel like he should refuse medical help if his partner didn't "agree to it", or be made to feel guilty about it if he didn't.

EDIT: I read your last post as well now:


Luckily, you dont need to be the one to "determine" it yourself - you can leave that to the doctor (tho a second opinion is never bad, they're hardly infallible).

So yes - you were right to suggest making an appointment to see a real doctor who can better analize his condition.

If he is analized to suffer from a problem that requires medication, however, it would probably be constructive to support him in following up doctor's orders, rather than claiming the position of someone who first has to "determine" it for herself to "agree to it".

Just imagine - if he is clinically depressed (or something of the like), the damage a partner would do expressing the opinion that personally, she doesn't believe any of it and though she won't literally stop him from taking medication, she will "tell him the truth" about thinking its all exaggerated or excuses or et cetera. Would probably make things a lot worse still - not to mention stifling any sense of comfort and trust, which he/you would much need to communicate again!

What I'm saying is, that's obviously a worst-case-scenario you would want to stay away from.

When he does go to see the pshyciatrist about his depression and she/he does diagnose him as being chronically depressed, then I will be wrong and completely support his process though all of this. But if I am right then it will just be another one of his crying wolf techniques and it will be hard to believe him at all next time.

duplicate post, sorry...

So is he planning to see a psychiatrist for the depression? If he does, who knows, it may turn out to be a great thing for you both.

Also, if you feel your present therapist is not the best for you both, you can always find another one. Not all therapists are the right therapist for a given situation. While you don't want to run away from problems, a different therapist might help.

The best news is, you ARE taking action to change your situation. Keep at it.... I know it's difficult!