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Terri Schiavo to be Starved to Death

 
 
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2005 04:27 pm
Judge: No delay in Schiavo case

Quote:
TAMPA, Florida (AP) -- A judge ruled Thursday that Florida's social services agency cannot intervene to delay the removal of the feeding tube keeping brain-damaged Terri Schiavo alive.



The Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibits state government from taking an individual's life, liberty, or property without due process of law.

Due process has both a substantive and a procedural component.

Substantive due process encompasses fundamental rights . . . a state may not deprive an individual of his/her fundamental right to life unless a state has a compelling interest in doing so and the means used to meet that compelling interest are necessary and narrowly tailored to serve that compelling interest.

Terry has a substantive due process right to LIFE.

Procedural due process encompasses notice and an opportunity to be heard.

Terry has a procedural due process right to notice and a opportunity to be heard before the State orders her death . . . but she can't speak for herself.

The state recognizes that under certain circumstances, an individual might choose to end his or her own "existence" on this earth. Although suicide is unlawful, states recognize that due to advances in medical science . . . when a person may already be legally dead due to all cessation in brain activity . . . the body may still be kept functioning through artificial means. Machines can supply oxygen to the body's blood supply and keep the heart beating.

Under those circumstances, when a person is brain dead, but the body is still functioning by artificial means . . . a person may express that they do not wish to remain on this earth as a brain dead vegetable-like entity who is merely kept "alive" by means of artificial means. They may express their intent, under these circumstances, to have the artificial means removed and the law will honor the individual's clear and convincing expression of intent.

Terri suffered a brain injury in 1990 that left her severely disabled. Her husband, Michael Schiavo, his brother and another brother's wife claim Terri verbally expressed her desire not to be kept alive "artificially" should she ever require life support. Terri's parents and siblings, along with her former co-workers, friends, priests and fellow church members dispute that claim.

It does not stand to reason, however, if a person expresses a clear intent to have the artificial means of life withdrawn in the event of brain death that a person would ALSO agree to be starved to death when he/she is NOT brain dead and does not need machines to breathe for them or to keep their hearts pumping.

How can a person with conflicting interests (whose testimony is bolstered by HIS relatives) go into court and argue that Terry would want to be starved to death in the event of a brain injury that doesn't technically kill her, but leaves her with low brain function and (presumptively) a low quality of life? In the State of Florida, any living will that is NOT signed in the presence of two witnesses is invalid and unenforceable. As in other will situations, a witness cannot allowed to be a witness if he/she is a beneficiary of the estate . . . .

Terry's husband has a conflict of interest. He may be purporting to express Terry's wishes and maybe she did say she didn't want to be kept alive by machines in brain dead state . . . If I'm already brain dead . . . sure . . . pull the plug. But how do we clearly know she would want to be literally put to death through starvation? We do know, however, that the sooner Terry died, the sooner Terry's husband would inherit her money designated for her care. The longer Terry lived, her net estate would continue to dwindle. The word of one person who has a conflict of interest (whether he denies that conflict or not) should never suffice to establish someone else's wishes concerning the matter of life and death.

BUT, Terry is NOT DEAD, technically or otherwise. She still has brain activity. Even if she has a miserable life and she would want to commit suicide, the law has never legalized suicide. If someone walked up to her chair where she sat or up to her bed where she was sleeping and put a bullet in her head . . . they would be charged with MURDER! If her husband cannot put her out of her misery by putting a bullet in her head, how can a court sanction murder by allowing her husband to starve her to death?

Florida law prohibits assistance to self-murder:

782.08 Assisting self-murder.--Every person deliberately assisting another in the commission of self-murder shall be guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.


I don't see Terry's case as a "right to die" case . . . I see it as her husband's "right to murder" case. If Terry was brain-dead and the only thing keeping her body functioning were machines . . . then sure, pull the plug if that's what Terry would have wanted. But, she's NOT DEAD.

The State has no compelling interest that warrants the taking of Terry's LIFE (whether it be a miserable life or not depending on who you ask) through court-sanctioned murder.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 8,067 • Replies: 127
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2005 05:22 pm
You call it murder? Some would call it mercy, long delayed.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2005 05:39 pm
She doesn't require extraordinary medical care to keep her alive; she doesn't require heroic measures; she's not suffering; she's not terminally ill . . . she's disabled and she lives in a nursing home.

If we can justify starving Terri Schiavo to death, we can justify starving all disabled persons to death and call it merciful.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2005 07:24 pm
That's one perspective. I don't for an instant believe she would have wanted to be kept alive like that.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2005 07:42 pm
since we don't know what she would choose, I suppose we all project what we would want done in her shoes.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 06:49 am
For all intents and purposes, Terry Schaivo "died" fifteen years ago. She is in a persistent vegetative state, and has no cognitive brain function. Basically, she is a shell, with no vestige of personhood.

This is not about "starving a woman to death". People in her condition are left to die in peace all the time. The problem is, that this case has become a political football, with the "right to lifers" having a field day. The fact that the decision to remove the feeding tube was appropriately in the purview of Terri's husband, and not the courts, seems to be lost on many people, including Governor Jeb Bush. The courts have consistently upheld Michael Schaivo's right, and the political games keep delaying the inevitable.

It is really sickening when the government becomes so inexorably intertwined in the private lives of its citizens. I live in Florida, and I have a living will, and health care proxy. There is talk that someone wants to pass a bill in the Florida legislature, that the living will has to specifically state that a person wants a feeding tube removed, if there is no chance of recovery.

I think that I am going to make an appointment with my lawyer. I would never want to put my family through what Michael Schaivo has endured!
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 08:37 am
Well-stated, Phoenix. That's what I thought I had remembered about this case.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 08:51 am
It's awful what they've put that poor woman and her husband through.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 10:29 am
Phoenix beat me to it, but, here is my perspective anyway:

(QUOTE)The feeding tube that has pumped life-sustaining nutrients into the severely brain-damaged Florida woman's stomach for 15 years is scheduled to be disconnected Friday under a court order won by her husband, Michael.

The courts have agreed with Michael Schiavo that his wife is in a persistent vegetative state, and although she never wrote down her wishes made it clear in casual conversations that she would have rejected artificial life support.(UNQUOTE)

The husband has refused offers of millions of dollars because he loves her enough to do the right thing.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 10:45 am
BBB
Why must she be starved to death? Why can't the mercy end result be quick and painless? Why can't she be given an injection to stop her heart like they do with executions? If it's OK for criminals, why isn't it OK for her?

They shoot horses, don't they?

BBB
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 11:02 am
BBB
can't argue with you, but you know the answer.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 11:20 am
It's murder in the worst way. Who ever thought we'd see the day that the courts would order starvation for a person who still has brain activity. How F***ing cruel!
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 11:42 am
I think dyslexia is right. It is interesting that people who normally agree on political issues here, are disagreeing on this issue.

This story is a tragedy any way you look at it. I believe both her husband and her parents are acting in good faith. I feel very sorry for all of them.

I have made it very clear to my wife and my family that I would want to be allowed to die if I were in the situations (in a vegetative state with little chance of recovery).

Other than making your wishes very clear beforehand, I don't know how else to avoid these cases ending up tragically in court.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 11:44 am
A question for Deborah and Montana (and anyone who thinks Terri should be kept alive),

If she had written clear instructions stating she would want the feeding tube removed in this case, would you support these wishes?
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 12:44 pm
ebrown_p:

Quote:
What is a Living Will?

It is a document in which you state whether you want life-prolonging treatment, nutrition and hydration used, withheld or withdrawn. It only becomes effective when you have a terminal condition.

Life-prolonging treatment means any medical procedure, treatment or intervention which only prolongs the process of dying.

A terminal condition is an incurable or irreversible condition that will result in imminent death even without life-prolonging treatment. It does not include any form of senility, Alzheimer's disease, mental retardation or mental illness. It also doesn't include chronic mental or physical impairments, including comatose conditions, that will not result in imminent death.


Terri is not brain dead. She is not terminally ill. Terri has been permanently and chronically impaired by a brain injury. But, her injury is not the kind of injury or illness that results in imminent death. She has lived in a disabled state for fifteen years. Withholding nutrition and hydration in a case such as Terri's case is murder because she is not otherwise in danger of imminent death from her impairment alone.

I do not support murder of a living human being, even if that human being is impaired.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 12:52 pm
I am convinced the husband had the best opportunity to hear her sentiments expressed. He could easily have walked away and allowed someone else to decide in his stead if he had any doubt.
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 01:37 pm
What's wrong with giving her food and water? If her heart stops, then don't provide medical treatment or take any heroic measures to get it beating again. If she stops breathing, then don't provide medical treatment or take any heroic measures to get her breathing again.

I'm convinced, when the husband was negotiating a settlement of her medical malpractice claim, that the future costs of her long-term care was a part of the total package.

If Terry really wanted to be starved to death, why didn't he say something about her alleged wishes when he was negotiating a settlement to provide for her long-term care? Why didn't he step forward and try to have her feeding tube removed during the first 8 or 10 years that she was being fed? He has conflicting interests and conflicting motives and anything he says now is clearly suspect.

If Terry truly wanted to be starved to death in the event she became mentally and/or physically impaired and couldn't feed herself . . . why didn't she express those wishes to her parents or her close friends? If Terry was physically capable of feeding herself, I have no doubt that she would pick up a spoon and do it.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 01:49 pm
I think it plain money is not a consideration, in the final analysis. There are thousands of people who would gladly foot the bill.
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 02:21 pm
Well . . . the relevant time is NOT now . . . the relevant time was the first three years or so after Terry sustained the impairment and when her husband was negotiating a settlement on a malpractice claim.

In every malpractice/negligence action, the plaintiff must prove all the essential elements of the claim: 1) duty, 2) breach of duty, 3) that the breach of duty CAUSED the damages, and 4) DAMAGES.

YEARS AGO, my torts professor proclaimed in class . . . if you negligently run over someone with your vehicle . . . BACK UP!

It was my professor's way of getting the message across to all of us future lawyers that a DEAD person costs far less in civil negligence damages than an IMPAIRED person who will require substantial long-term care.

I have no doubt -- at the relevant time period -- that Terri's husband calculated the long-term costs of Terri's care as part of the essential damages portion of the claim -- and the settlement package included those costs.

The relevancy is NOT THE MONEY . . . the relevancy is the fact that he didn't reveal that Terri wanted DEATH rather than LIFE (and all the associated costs) at THAT TIME or any time immediately thereafter. It was ONLY have Terri continued to live and live and live . . . that he decided, by gosh . . . she is NOT going to go quietly on her own . . . something needs to be done to ACCELERATE her death. His expression of Terri's wishes under the circumstances are suspect and do not amount to clear and convincing evidence.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 02:22 pm
Quote:
If Terry truly wanted to be starved to death in the event she became mentally and/or physically impaired and couldn't feed herself . . . why didn't she express those wishes to her parents or her close friends?


Terry was 26 when she had the heart attack. At 26, most people have the expectation that they will not have to make that decision for many, many years, and really (until now) don't go around talking about it.

I am a lot older than Terry. I have had this discussion with my husband and son, but don't think (except on A2K) that I have discussed my personal wishes with anyone else.

As far as Michael having conflicting motives, I am sure that there must be some conflicts within him. I think that anyone in his position would be torn in two. I have no idea as to why certain things were not done earlier, and it is none of my business, OR THE GOVERNMENT'S!
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