114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 07:00 am
@hawkeye10,
Wow.. Gold drops to 1890..
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 01:46 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Wow.. Gold drops to 1890..

It's not significant when the price of gold goes down. It's only significant when it goes up. Clearly, you don't know anything about economics.

That is all.
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 02:38 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

parados wrote:

Wow.. Gold drops to 1890..

It's not significant when the price of gold goes down. It's only significant when it goes up. Clearly, you don't know anything about economics.
You don't sound so brilliant yourself, joe.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 03:29 pm
@okie,
Looking at the thumbs up compared to the thumbs down it appears that others see you in the same light! Idea
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 04:03 pm
@Thomas,
Here's another piece from an eminient economist (of sorts), in this case the German Minister of Finance
Quote:
September 5, 2011 12:55 pm
Why austerity is only cure for the eurozone
By Wolfgang Schäuble
In recent weeks, debt markets have undergone wild gyrations, leading some analysts and commentators to question the progress achieved in taming the sovereign debt crisis in the eurozone. More recently, economic data and forward-looking indicators have emerged that many economists think point to a faltering of the global recovery, compounding the general anxiety.
Instead of focusing minds, however, these developments have prompted a cacophony of prescriptions about what western governments should do next. There have been calls on regulators to rein in speculators, on the central banks to loosen monetary policy further, on the US and Germany to use their supposed “fiscal space” to encourage demand and on European Union leaders to take an immediate leap into a fiscal union and joint liability. Now more than ever is a time for clear messages and clear priorities.
Whatever role the markets may have played in catalysing the sovereign debt crisis in the eurozone, it is an undisputable fact that excessive state spending has led to unsustainable levels of debt and deficits that now threaten our economic welfare. Piling on more debt now will stunt rather than stimulate growth in the long run. Governments in and beyond the eurozone need not just to commit to fiscal consolidation and improved competitiveness – they need to start delivering on these now.
The recipe is as simple as it is hard to implement in practice: western democracies and other countries faced with high levels of debt and deficits need to cut expenditures, increase revenues and remove the structural hindrances in their economies, however politically painful. Some progress has already been achieved in this respect, but more needs to be done. Only this course of action can lead to sustainable growth as opposed to short-term volatile bursts or long-term economic decline.
There is some concern that fiscal consolidation, a smaller public sector and more flexible labour markets could undermine demand in these countries in the short term. I am not convinced that this is a foregone conclusion, but even if it were, there is a trade-off between short-term pain and long-term gain. An increase in consumer and investor confidence and a shortening of unemployment lines will in the medium term cancel out any short-term dip in consumption.
These efforts will inevitably bear fruit, but it will not come overnight. This time, we will have to take the longer view. For too long we have forsaken long-term gains for short-term gratification with the result we all know.
The members of the eurozone have and will continue to collectively provide conditional financial assistance to those countries that find themselves cut off from capital markets, buying them time to put their public finances on a sustainable footing and to improve their competitiveness. There are risks to this strategy. Yet the alternative, by allowing the crisis to infect the eurozone as a whole and threaten the euro, would be riskier still.
When markets become the bearer of bad news, there is a natural tendency to take aim at the messenger. The truth is that governments need the disciplining forces of markets. But markets, like the human beings they are made of, do not always act rationally. In uncertain times and absent a robust regulatory framework, their volatility can exacerbate a crisis.
There is a broad consensus now that more robust, crisis-resistant markets need strong regulation. But the process is laborious and momentum in the Group of 20 appears to be fading. In this context, it may become necessary for key countries to move ahead unilaterally in specific areas. Last year Germany introduced a limited yet controversial ban on naked short-selling. Today I would see the introduction of a financial transaction tax in Europe as another case for such a “pacemaker-approach” by a few, important pioneers.
One central lesson of the financial crisis was that markets could only function properly if risk-taking were not divorced from liability. The loosening of this bond was a central factor of the crisis. Likewise, the eurozone crisis unfolded after a decade during which economies with markedly different and, indeed, diverging fiscal profiles and competitiveness were all able to borrow at close to benchmark rates.
Hence my unease when some politicians and economists call on the eurozone to take a sudden leap into fiscal union and joint liability. Not only would such a step fail to durably solve the crisis by addressing only its most superficial symptoms, but it could make it worse in the medium term by removing a key incentive for the weaker members to forge ahead with much-needed reforms. It would also go against the very nature of European integration.
Europe has always moved forward one step at a time and it should continue to do so. This does not mean that fiscal policy in the eurozone should not gradually become more centralised. It should, as long as this process is legitimised by a strong democratic mandate. But strengthening the architecture of the eurozone will need time. It may need profound treaty changes, which will not happen overnight. But the direction is not disputed, and the determination of all member states to defend the common European currency is granted.
The writer is Germany’s federal minister of finance
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2011.


I agree with his prescription for reductions in government expenditures; increased revenues (taxation); and removal of structural hindrannces in economic activity. I would also add a fourth - prompt actions to reduce long term entitlement obligations, the projected growth of which promise to dwarf even current budget deficits. I believe our failure to address this issue is what has so far prevented any political action on the tax question, or, for that matter, coordinated action on our current economic stagnation.

We face a paralysis with, on one hand, conservatives, concerned about these long-term (but still fairly proximate) entitlement issues, and therefore (wisely in my view) refusing to concede tax increases to a government that appears unwilling to even address them, and, on the other hand, liberals, concerned about current economic difficulties and refusing to consider needed entitlement reform untill the current pain is "stopped" by government spending financed in part by tax increases. This is truly an absurd and very harmful deadlock. That it continues is, in my mind, a very serious indictment of the failure of our current political leadership.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 04:13 pm
@georgeob1,
You wrote,
Quote:

I agree with his prescription for reductions in government expenditures; increased revenues (taxation); and removal of structural hindrannces in economic activity. I would also add a fourth - prompt actions to reduce long term entitlement obligations, the projected growth of which promise to dwarf even current budget deficits. I believe our failure to address this issue is what has so far prevented any political action on the tax question, or, for that matter, coordinated action on our current economic stagnation.


I agree that the reduction of entitlement obligations is necessary, but I don't have much faith in our politicians to act in the near future. I'm also in agreement with reducing government expenditures, and increase taxation revenues.

I believe the only area of disagreement would be the necessity of the feds to spend on infrastructure and education as we go forward.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 04:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I believe the only area of disagreement would be the necessity of the feds to spend on infrastructure and education as we go forward.


I had a lot of direct involvement in the execution of our last batch of Federally financed transportation "infrastructure investment" under the so-called "Iced Tea" legislation of the early Clinton years. Most of the money was wasted building massive municipal mass transit projects which have ever since been plagued with low ridership and continuing tax burdens on the communities they "serve". Compared to most of them BART is a great success.

I think a large number of Americans would like to see the Federal government end its interference in local education. Many more are unwilling to put more money in government education as long as the NEA and AFT retain their grip on the schools. Reform is possible only with them out of the picture.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 04:43 pm
@georgeob1,
We are all aware of the boondoggles about government spending, but there are ways to minimize waste, increase efficiency, and get a bang out of most dollars spent on infrastructure maintenance, repair, and development. I'm sure there are skilled men and women in this country that can manage public works projects that will meet the highest standards for results. If we can send a man to the moon and instruments to mars, there's not much Americans can't accomplish if we put our minds to it. After all, we are still the highest productive workers in the world, and that's not about to change any time soon.

As for education, local school districts need money to save teachers jobs, and to provide our children with the necessary supplies to educate them. The feds also need to provide grants and loans for students to attend college. This doesn't mean that the local school districts have to give up control.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 05:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Romney's plan to cut taxes to boost our economy isn't going to work. If tax cuts creates jobs, GW Bush's tax cuts in 2001-2002 would have created jobs; instead it was the worst job creation since the Great Depression.

The way to create jobs is to actually "pay" to create jobs, starting with our infrastructure.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 05:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
What's a job ci?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 05:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The way to create jobs is to actually "pay" to create jobs, starting with our infrastructure.
That truth collides with the Rights demand that infrastructure be liberated from government though, as taxpayers are going to have a problem with paying for assets with taxes that are given to companies to make money with. This scheme would fit nicely with our recent practice of privatizing profits and socializing loses, which I think we have had about enough of.....
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 06:07 pm
The interesting thing about "jobs" is that the Congress will have to vote shortly as to whether to eliminate over 120,000 jobs for the Postal Service.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0906/US-Postal-Service-seeks-reprieve-from-Congress-to-avert-default
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 06:12 pm
@parados,


Quote:
The interesting thing about "jobs" is that the Congress will have to vote shortly as to whether to eliminate over 120,000 jobs for the Postal Service.



220,000 lost positions.) It has to be Obama's fault Correct?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 06:13 pm
@parados,
It's not only the 120,000 jobs, but their dependents who will be left without any financial support. That's the biggest problem with unemployment numbers; it doesn't tell us how many are actually affected. If there are 15 million without jobs, how many are directly affected from this job loss?

Who's going to provide the necessary shelter and food for those folks?

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 06:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
It's not only the 120,000 jobs, but their dependents who will be left without any financial support. That's the biggest problem with unemployment numbers; it doesn't tell us how many are actually affected.



exactly!

Quote:
Who's going to provide the necessary shelter and food for those folks?


Obama's stash?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 08:03 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

The interesting thing about "jobs" is that the Congress will have to vote shortly as to whether to eliminate over 120,000 jobs for the Postal Service.
Sadly, it is too often the case that top line bureaucrats fire the people that are doing the work, while feathering their own nest, and so if Congress was smart, they would figure out a way to prevent that in this case. I suspect it is the top echelons of the Postal Service that are the most inefficient and wasteful. Theyshould look therefirst for job eliminations in my opinion.
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 06:07 am
@parados,
This is very interesting indeed. Wasn't the Post Office held up as a paragon of govt effencientcey when we were having the health care debate? We would ask to be shown a govt agency that was efficient and we were told the post office. "You mail a letter and it gets there." To bad it is like every other govt agency in that it can't do it for the budget it is given.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 07:31 am


What is Debbie Wasserman Schultz sniffing?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 10:33 am
@Baldimo,
The Post Office doesn't have a budget given to it Baldimo.
Instead it is given orders about where it has to keep offices open and no money to keep those offices open. I guess you must be an example of RW stupidity.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 10:34 am
@okie,
Quote:
I suspect it is the top echelons of the Postal Service that are the most inefficient and wasteful. Theyshould look therefirst for job eliminations in my opinion.

Wow.. And to think the Post Office is run like a corporation and you accuse the higher ups of making too much money?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

The States Need Help - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Fiscal Cliff - Question by JPB
Let GM go Bankrupt - Discussion by Woiyo9
Sovereign debt - Question by JohnJD
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.22 seconds on 07/17/2025 at 01:25:13