114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 11:02 am
The last time I checked the Tel Aviv stock market (open on Sundays) was down 6%. Asian markets open in a couple of hours for Monday trading.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 11:09 am
@reasoning logic,
A stroke of good fortune or did you arrange it?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 11:18 am
@spendius,
Quote:
A stroke of good fortune or did you arrange it?


No you might just say that I was cursed in some areas and blessed in others!

Do you think that Israeli and the queen's citizens will be taking the same blood bath as us in the US come next week?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 11:32 am
@reasoning logic,
I don't know. Everybody seems to expect so.

But who bought all the shares in the sell off last week? Somebody did. Why does raising the debt ceiling equate with increasing the debt? The debt ceiling could be raised and then the debt reduced.

I'm regularly offered loans of one sort or another. I never bother though. There's nothing I want that justifies borrowing these days.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 11:46 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Why does raising the debt ceiling equate with increasing the debt? The debt ceiling could be raised and then the debt reduced.


Are you not aware of our slogan? Borrow and don't worry about it, you can always claim bankruptcy later and lenders can not squeeze blood out of a turnip!

Quote:
I'm regularly offered loans of one sort or another. I never bother though. There's nothing I want that justifies borrowing these days.


We have some in our country that will borrow at your age and not worry about paying it back because they are not going to be around much longer anyway!
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 12:28 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
The debt ceiling could be raised and then the debt reduced.


I guess that could be true but it could also be wishful thinking as well!

What is all the commotion about in London are they not able to keep all of their citizens pacified?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 12:43 pm
@reasoning logic,
The cops shot and killed a black guy last Thursday and his friends and family organised a march on the police station to protest about it. Others joined in from the pubs and things got a bit out of hand. They say it's going to cost £10 million so it's no big deal assuming nobody got seriously hurt. The Greeks could blow £10 million in two minutes. You lot even faster.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 12:46 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
You lot even faster.


I like it when I hear the truth! Laughing
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 01:33 pm
Merkel and Sarkozy seem to have agreed on a plan re Italy and Spain. That might soothe the stock markets a bit.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 01:38 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

Merkel and Sarkozy seem to have agreed on a plan re Italy and Spain. That might soothe the stock markets a bit.


1) France and Germany dont have the money to bail out Italy and Spain

2) for years the plan has been delay, pray and lie, so it will be very difficult to convince the holders of capital that Europe now has a viable plan and is ready to implement it this late into the melt-down.

Edit: another thing to keep in mind is the France is itself getting deep into the weeds.....Germany is the only party that has financial muscle, so this means that they can if they want call the shots.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 01:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
Duly noted, hawkeye. The early stories I am seeing suggest that "European Central Banks" may cobble together some money in order to buy secondary bonds to stave off crises in Italy and Spain for the moment. I doubt that, in Italy in particular, that will buy that much time to straighten things out. A few days or weeks perhaps.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 01:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
for years the plan has been delay, pray and lie, so it will be very difficult to convince the holders of capital that Europe now has a viable plan and is ready to implement it this late into the melt-down.


It seems that they have learned from us in the US to use the weapons of mass deception. If we can keep fooling the tax payers and investors of our country, then they may be able to do the same.

We are so good at what we do, "that we may be able to ride this train a bit longer.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 01:58 pm
@realjohnboy,
Actually, Merkel and Sarkozy did nothing more than reaffirming the decissions of the EURO-summit from July. Just calming down investors before the Asian stock markets open.

Quote:
"President Sarkozy and Chancellor Merkel reiterate their commitment to fully implement the decisions taken by the heads of state and government of the euro area and the EU institutions on July 21st 2011.

"In particular, they stress the importance that parliamentary approval will be obtained swiftly by the end of September in their two countries.

"They welcome the recent measures announced by Italy and Spain with regard to faster fiscal consolidation and improved competitiveness. Especially the Italian authorities' goal to achieve a balanced budget a year earlier than previously envisaged is of fundamental importance. They stress that complete and speedy implementation of the announced measures is key to restore market confidence.

"As decided on July 21st, the effectiveness of the EFSF will be improved and its flexibility increased linked to appropriate conditionality, in particular through the following instruments: precautionary program, finance recapitalization of financial institutions and to intervene in secondary markets on the basis of an ECB analysis recognizing the existence of exceptional financial market circumstances and risks to financial stability and on the basis of a decision by mutual agreement of the member states, in order to avoid contagion.

"In line with 21st July decisions, France and Germany are confident that the ECB analysis will provide the appropriate basis for secondary market interventions as it will help determine the case when financial stability of the eurozone as a whole is at risk.
Franco-German statement
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 01:59 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

Duly noted, hawkeye. The early stories I am seeing suggest that "European Central Banks" may cobble together some money in order to buy secondary bonds to stave off crises in Italy and Spain for the moment. I doubt that, in Italy in particular, that will buy that much time to straighten things out. A few days or weeks perhaps.
I dont think it will buy any time, it was just a few weeks ago that bail out and putting into default Greece was supposed to turn the corner and yet here we are, with the steady drum beat to doom continuing its progression. It is now conventional wisdom that the underlying problems are

1) the lack of political will in Europe to tackle the problem

2) that having a single currency but not political and economic unity can not work

Europe has two choices, to either go all the way in with unity, or drop the Euro. So far they are not in the slightest bit interested in doing either, and unless they get interested we know where this train goes.....
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 02:05 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Actually, Merkel and Sarkozy did nothing more than reaffirming the decissions of the EURO-summit from July. Just calming down investors before the Asian stock markets open.
"more of the same" will not calm anyone down, as what Europe has been doing as been deemed not anywhere close to enough.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 02:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
I guess that we might as well though in the towel if "more of the same" will not calm anyone down!
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 02:31 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

I guess that we might as well though in the towel if "more of the same" will not calm anyone down!


Bullshit, what we need are leaders who know how to lead, which at the moment are few and far between. I said last week in another thread that in America right now just about the only place to find leaders is in the military, and even there we have had some problems..

In Economic Turmoil, U.S. Needs A Leader Like Churchill

David Gergen

Quote:
Before returning to the States this weekend, I and others in my family spent enthralled hours at the Churchill War Rooms in London, along with the new museum in his honor next door. Now, there was a leader! There was a man whose example shouts out to us now in our hour of trouble.
On both sides of the Atlantic, the turmoil of this past week has sparked cries for those in political power to step up and for God's sake, lead. Fears are spreading across Europe as well as the U.S. that not only are our economies teetering but our politicians are ineffectual.
In their summit a short while ago, leaders of European democracies promised they had fixed the problems of their weakest player, Greece. Instead, their solution was so timid that fears of default have spread to Italy and Spain, the third and fourth largest economies in the euro zone. In the U.S., President Obama and Congressional leaders assured us that their budget deal would put us on a safe path. Instead, markets plunged and Standard & Poors stripped our county of its AAA credit rating for the first time ever.
It's not that you don't have the economic capacity to pay your bills, said S&P; we're just not sure you have the political capacity to pay them. One can well object to the decision, as the White House has, but the damage is done in international eyes. Gloom is thick across the waters.
Winston Churchill would have rejected this pessimism in an instant. He was offered the prime ministership in May, 1940, when Hitler had marched across much of Europe and chased British troops off the mainland. Many of Britain' older political leaders were so despondent they wanted to capitulate to Hitler, and had signed a peace treaty.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/08/07/gergen.churchill.downgrade/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 02:48 pm
Here in the U.S. there will be those - who should and probably do know better - who will blame it all on Obama if the markets slump later today and tomorrow. The world revolves around us, don't you know.
As some of you know, I am a bit of a political junkie. I can talk somewhat intelligently about the next election in Australia or Japan, for example. And so it is with the nuances of the EU. I know a bit, but certainly don't catch them all.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 02:55 pm
@realjohnboy,
Quote:
who will blame it all on Obama if the markets slump later today and tomorrow.
Sure just as Obama though Axlerod is blaming it all on the TeaParty...it took decades of economic mismanagement and lack of attention to weakening political systems all around the globe to get to this point, but of course no one wants to talk about THAT!
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2011 03:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Bullshit, what we need are leaders who know how to lead


I do admire your strive to succeed but I do not see how we can transition into a new paradigm of shared prosperity without transparency.
In my opinion we will have to come to the realization of what the lack of transparency does to our society before we can move forward as a society!
 

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