Where is the US economy headed?

@cicerone imposter,

My parents (who were themselves immigrants) and I paid our property taxes to fund public schools and paid for real educations in parochial schools. We got what we paid for. On average we didn't have more money than anyone else.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

If you had a home, and was able to pay property taxes, your family had much more than we did. We lived in hostels until I was in my older teens. Our home was in a school room divided by army blankets for walls.

We didn't have a choice between public school or private school.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Fine, but most people do have such a choice, though few acknowledge it.

If you want third rate service just seek it from the government.

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@georgeob1,

Like our military?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

I doubt that you know the first thing about it.

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

ome of the worst performing public school systems are the most costly per pupil, george, proving that money is not the fix to the problem.

That's because the cost of heating, electricity and building maintenance are included in the operating costs. I've stated that fact here many times.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

From the office of Catholic schools, Archdiocese of Richmond, VA:

How much does a Catholic Education cost?

Tuition fees vary from school to school, but the average tuition costs are $5,100 for Elementary School and $10,200 for High School. These average tuition costs do not account for the total cost of educating one child.

The website, www.catholicplanet.com puts the cost at $300/month.

According to www.greatschools.org:

The National Catholic Educational Association reports that the mean tuition for parish elementary schools is $2,607 and $6,906 for the freshman year of secondary school.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Quote:

Fine, but most people do have such a choice, though few acknowledge it.

That is unfair and untrue statement.

From www.post-gazette.com of Pittsburgh:

About 10 percent of the students in schools affiliated with the Catholic Diocese of Pittsburgh are not Catholic. Usually, non-Catholics pay much higher tuition and rank at the bottom of waiting lists. At St. Louise de Marillac in Upper St. Clair, for instance, just eight of last year's 585 students were not Catholic.

But at three inner-city schools -- St. Benedict the Moor, St. Agnes in Oakland and Holy Rosary in Homewood -- more than 95 percent of the students are non-Catholic. While many dioceses have closed such schools, Bishop Donald Wuerl saw them as a ministry to families struggling to escape poverty. He created the Extra Mile Foundation to raise money from the wider community for those three schools.

Nearly 70 percent of the 668 Extra Mile students qualify for federally subsidized lunches, and 60 percent are from single-parent homes. So, at least two-thirds of the annual $3,090 cost of educating each child is covered through the foundation and other fund-raising.

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@georgeob1,

Well, you surely must know a whole lot about the US Navy, and how lowsy our government does everything.

I was a peon in the US Air Force, and worked with nukes, but that was way below your rank.

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@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

Quote:
ome of the worst performing public school systems are the most costly per pupil, george, proving that money is not the fix to the problem.

That's because the cost of heating, electricity and building maintenance are included in the operating costs. I've stated that fact here many times.

Are you suggesting that academic performance (where objective data are available) correlates with the cost of heating/cooling and building maintenance)???? The fact is it does not. Indeed the correlation of academic performance with cost/pupil in public schools was negative a few years ago (the last time I checked).

As I recall the Washington DC public schools had the highest percapita cost/pupil and nearly the worst measured performance in the nation. That was the year (2003) the local head of the teacher's union (AFT) was caught after embezzling about $3 million from the union over a seven year period. When questioned in the Congress about the national union's failure to audit their books for the past ten years even though their by laws called for annual audits, the union president testified that, "there was no legally enforcable requiremet for them to do so". She was right of course, but she failed to acknowledge that there was a legally enforcable requirement for the school board to deduct the union dues from teacher paychecks and deposit them in the union's account every payday.

The AFT's most recent gift to the District of Columbia was a well funded campaign to defeat the Mayor who hired Michelle Rhee as school superintendent and who beiefly brought some progress and improvement to that unfortunate city's public schools, Sadly that is over now.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

Are you suggesting that academic performance (where objective data are available) correlates with the cost of heating/cooling and building maintenance)????

A rude and ignorant remark. No, I am not of the right. The simple truth of the matter that just as heat and electricity and water costs are part of the cost of doing business, so the cost of heating a school is part of the cost of educating a child.

You claim to be versed in business. Why do you have to be told that?

And, if you are of mind to reason, you might realize that old and poorly insulated buildings that are difficult to heat are more likely to be found in financially depressed areas, like the aging and derelict industrial cities of the upper Midwest.

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

Nothing rude about it, and certainly nothing ignorant. Unfortunately for the argument you appear to be putting forth, the worst performing school systems in the country don't map well to the prevailing climactic conditions where they are located. It isn't very clear just what point you are trying to make, but so far it doesn't make much sense.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

I think that you are so accustomed to being rude that you no longer have another behavioral mode. And it is ignorant. The cost of doing business is just that. Another straw man from you. Your feigned ignorance makes you appear worse than you are.

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

Not really. I have, however lost some of my former patience and tolerance for stupidity and ignorance. You are very free with your categorical criticisms of "righties" and others with whom you disagree. However, it is quite clear that you cannot endure a factual and logical disagreement.

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@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

From the office of Catholic schools, Archdiocese of Richmond, VA:

How much does a Catholic Education cost?

Tuition fees vary from school to school, but the average tuition costs are $5,100 for Elementary School and $10,200 for High School. These average tuition costs do not account for the total cost of educating one child.

The website, www.catholicplanet.com puts the cost at $300/month.

According to www.greatschools.org:

The National Catholic Educational Association reports that the mean tuition for parish elementary schools is $2,607 and $6,906 for the freshman year of secondary school.

That appears accurate to me. The tuition in our local parish (San Francisco) is about $6,400/ year for elementary school - and it covers nearly all of the cost of operations, though parents are required to contribute some voluntary work.. Considering that, due to inflation, the cost of everything roughly doubles every 16 years or so that cost has been roughly constant for several generations - about what my parents paid. The cost per pupil in the Detroit, Washington DC , and Oakland CA public schools is much higher.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

plainoldme wrote:
Quote:
some of the worst performing public school systems are the most costly per pupil, george, proving that money is not the fix to the problem.
That's because the cost of heating, electricity and building maintenance are included in the operating costs. I've stated that fact here many times.
Are you suggesting that academic performance (where objective data are available) correlates with the cost of heating/cooling and building maintenance)???? The fact is it does not.

I find it amazing how pom can come up with some bizarre reason totally unrelated to the subject that would justify her templates, that high cost of the failed D.C. system is due to building maintenance instead of logical reasons!!!!!! In other words, it has to be the dastardly energy companies causing the disaster there, not failed schools run by liberals, right?

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

About half an hour ago, a commentator on energy usage speaking to NPR's Scott Simon put the median familial income at $38,000.

This illustrates how out of reach Catholic school and private school are to "most people." A family whose income is $38,000 can not afford $2,000 tuition.

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@okie,

Quote:

I find it amazing how pom can come up with some bizarre reason totally unrelated to the subject that would justify her templates, that high cost of the failed D.C. system is due to building maintenance instead of logical reasons!!!!!! In other words, it has to be the dastardly energy companies causing the disaster there, not failed schools run by liberals, right?

Straw man fallacy.

I did not now nor did I ever mention the D. C. school system.

george did.

Until you learn not to use the straw man, lock up your computer. You are ridiculous.

george used a straw man to ignore that there is a total cost of doing business reflected in the cost of dollar spent to pupil ratio. It was george who

Quote:

some bizarre reason totally unrelated to the subject that would justify her [his] templates

While I did some graduate work in business (before being overcome by boredom), I do not claim expertise.

However, based upon your posts and george's I will in the future.

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I am leaving this Parliament of Fouls to bake a raspberry chocolate cheesecake for tomorrow's dinner; research some more lamb recipes; then attend a performance of Hamlet this evening.

I hope that several of you continue mining your own thoughts for unsupportable statements but I do wish you would drop the tiresome staw man fallacies.

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Meanwhile As Obama Turns to Deficit Reduction, Supporters Ask Where Are the Jobs?

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Where is the US economy headed?

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