Where is the US economy headed?

@ican711nm,

ican, That's over 15 years old, and Soros has not made a dent in destroying our Constitution, but GW Bush almost destroyed our economy. You are one blind, stupid, character, who posts mostly stupid stuff that has no bearing in the real world.

3 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Our major railway company, Deutsche Bahn, had to finance it themselves.

All new fast railway tracks are part of the various "Federal Transport Infrastructure Plans". But these plans aren't plans how to finance new projects.

The various Länder (states), the Federal Republic and the neighbouring towns (especially those which got stops for the new lines) 'sponsored' a lot, however.

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@georgeob1,

I agree. 99% actually. (Take it as a belated Christmas present)

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@georgeob1,

I think you have that backwards; our government has always promoted buying cars, and reduced our dependency on the rail system of this country. If our country had developed a rail system like most developed countries earlier on in our economic development stage after WWII, we would not have the high dependency on cars today. Public transportation in the US is abysmal, and those who are too poor to buy cars ride busses for hours to reach their destination. Traffic on most roadways are nightmares during commute hours, and many pay hefty parking fees because they have no other option.

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@Walter Hinteler,

I don't believe Americans will use high speed rail to the extent that it is used in other countries.

If I'm not mistaken, the move to HSR in other countries was largely due to congestion on exisiting conventional routes. There is no such situation in the US. While there are areas of the country where local commuter rail is heavily used this just isn't the case in terms of city to city travel.

One of the "pros" touted for HSR is that you can more easily travel from city center to city center which is great if you live near the city center and have reason to travel to the center of another city.

Most of my business travel in the US doesn't involve downtown destinations. For most of my regular trips, it is far easier for me to drive to the airport, fly to an airport outside the city center, rent a car, and drive to my destination than it would be for me to drive to the city center, get on a train, travel to another city center and then find ground transportation to get to my destination outside that city center.

I have no faith that the consumer's cost for using HSR will be less then that for air transportation.

Once outside of city highway congestion, Americans either don't mind or like to drive their cars.

Even though we all know it is safer to fly than drive on the highway, a great many people prefer to drive than fly, if the travel time (including getting to and from the airport) is relatively similar.

It will only take one HSR disaster to spook the hell out of consumers.

It may make sense in some places (Perhaps San Francisco to LA) but Tampa to Orlando? That one cost us $8 billion in federal subsidies.

The RR companies will not go it alone. A lot more federal and state dollars will be spent.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn, Where do you live? In North Carolina? You haven't heard about the road congestions during commute hours at most metro areas in the US?

You must be a rock; that dumb.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I think you have that backwards; our government has always promoted buying cars, and reduced our dependency on the rail system of this country.

Oh ! Really? Our major railroads were all capitalized by the government through land grants. That counts for a considerable degree of "government promotion". I'll agree we didn't impose high taxes on petroleum as the major European countries did and we don't have the same centralized control of land use and development as they do. These were major factors in maintaining densely populated urban areas and, along with the relatively shorter distances involved, encouraging the use of rail transport in Europe. All this was mainly the result of positive actions by European contries that had the effect of subsidizing and encouraging rail transport.

Our system, such as it is, grew up in the absence of government intervention.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

From Wiki:

Quote:

Causes of decline of passenger rail
Amfleet snack bar car, known as a "Cafe car", in an eastern Amtrak train

The causes of the decline of passenger rail in the United States were complex. Until 1920, rail was the only practical form of intercity transport, but the industry was subject to government regulation and labor inflexibility.[15][16] By 1930, the railroad companies had constructed, with private funding, a vast and relatively efficient transportation network, but when the federal government began to construct the National Highway System, the railroads found themselves faced with unprecedented competition for passengers and freight with automobiles, buses, trucks, and aircraft, all of which were heavily subsidized by the government road and airport building programs. At the same time the railroads were subject to property and other taxes. Every foot of rail was taxed, and some localities treated them like cash cows. In 1916, the amount of track in the United States peaked at 254,251 miles (409,177 km), compared to 140,695 miles (226,427 km) in 2007 (although it remained the largest rail network of any country in the world).[17][18] Some routes had been built primarily to facilitate the sale of stock in the railroad companies; they were redundant from the beginning. These were the first to be abandoned as the railroads' financial positions deteriorated, and the rails were routinely removed to save money on taxes. Many rights of way were destroyed by being broken up and built over, but others remained the property of the railroad or were taken over by local or state authorities and turned into rail trails, which could be returned to rail service if necessary. To date, no rail trail in the U.S. has reverted to an active railroad.[citation needed]

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Soros has not made a dent in destroying our Constitution, but GW Bush almost destroyed our economy. You are one blind, stupid, character, who posts mostly stupid stuff that has no bearing in the real world.

Cice, you have not provided any evidence that your post is valid and that you are not "one blind, stupid, character, who posts mostly stupid stuff that has no bearing in the real world. "

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Finn, Where do you live? In North Carolina? You haven't heard about the road congestions during commute hours at most metro areas in the US?

You must be a rock; that dumb.

Hey, you promised to scroll past by posts!

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Yeah, I break my promises sometimes too! Whatcha gonna do about it?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Nothing of course. You have me far too intimidated.

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

One of the "pros" touted for HSR is that you can more easily travel from city center to city center which is great if you live near the city center and have reason to travel to the center of another city.

Most of my business travel in the US doesn't involve downtown destinations. For most of my regular trips, it is far easier for me to drive to the airport, fly to an airport outside the city center, rent a car, and drive to my destination than it would be for me to drive to the city center, get on a train, travel to another city center and then find ground transportation to get to my destination outside that city center.

And what would hinder you
a) to rent a car at the station
b) to take a taxi
... if you're to posh to use public transport?

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

One of the "pros" touted for HSR is that you can more easily travel from city center to city center which is great if you live near the city center and have reason to travel to the center of another city.

Most of my business travel in the US doesn't involve downtown destinations. For most of my regular trips, it is far easier for me to drive to the airport, fly to an airport outside the city center, rent a car, and drive to my destination than it would be for me to drive to the city center, get on a train, travel to another city center and then find ground transportation to get to my destination outside that city center.

And what would hinder you
a) to rent a car at the station
b) to take a taxi
... if you're to posh to use public transport?

Quote:

... if you're to posh to use public transport?

I'm going to assume that was an attempt at humor Walter and not intended to be snide, but if I am flying on a commercial airliner, I am hardly too posh to use public transport.

As difficult as it may be to drive from an airport to a location outside the city proper, it is vastly more difficult to do so from the center of the city. It's also hardly unlikely that the train stations will provide for convenient car rental in the manner airports now do.

As for taking a taxi? You must be quite posh indeed if you think it is affordable to take a cab to a location 50 miles or more from a city center.

Have you ever travelled in the US - outside of city centers?

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Yes, I know Walter has.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

1200 miles? That's about the same distance as it is across Texas and New Mexico with a little bit of Arizona thrown in, across interstate 10.

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

We're talking about the high speed rail system being planned between San Francisco and Los Angeles. What has Texas and New Mexico have to do with this subject? Do they have a rail system across those states?

As a matter of fact, Texas and Oklahoma are seeking federal grants for high speed rail system.

Quote:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Corridor as designated by the Federal Railroad Administration

The South Central Corridor is one of ten federally-designated high-speed rail corridors in the United States. The proposed corridor consists of two segments:

* Tulsa, Oklahoma, to Fort Worth, Texas (322 miles)
* Little Rock, Arkansas, via Dallas/Fort Worth to San Antonio, Texas (672 miles)

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

...but GW Bush almost destroyed our economy.

LOL!

You are one blind ignorant, head stuck in the sand fool.

The economy wasn't that bad under Bush and I bet the vast majority
of Americans would be happier if we could return to a pre-PrezBo economy.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

TARP was adopted by a Democrat congressional majority in 2008 and signed by President Bush. That's 2--not 15--years ago.

Stimulus was adopted by a Democrat congressional majority in 2009 and signed by President Obama. That's 1--not 15--years ago.

Healthcare was was adopted by a Democrat congressional majority in 2009 and signed by President Obama. That's 1--not 15--years ago.

Fannie May and Freddie Mac were contiued unchanged by Democrat congressional majorities in 2001, 2004, 2007, and 2008 despite George Bush's pleas in each of those years to that Congress to fix them. That's 9, 6, 3, and 2--not 15--years ago.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

Oh, I see! Bush only approved it. You ****'n idiot.

1 Reply

Where is the US economy headed?

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