114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 05:51 pm
@okie,
It's not only practical, it's the only option left. You're not going to get blood out of a turnip no matter how hard you try.

Who wants to tax non-real estate property? When you buy any luxury item, you pay tax at the time of purchase.

What's your point? Your list including bank account interest, stocks, bonds, mutual funds all have capital gains tax.

Your arguments never make any sense, because you fail to understand the fundamentals on any topic.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 05:55 pm
@realjohnboy,
All those numbers don't mean a hill of beans until our country creates more jobs.

All that glitters may be gold, but gold in of itself has no intrinsic value; just speculation.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 08:07 pm
@okie,
Quote:
First of all, imposter, ask yourself if taxing wealth is practical. For example, what do you consider to be wealth? Is it money in the bank, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, what else?

Of course it would be difficult to tax wealth directly. That is why we tax income as a substitute. But you want to ignore the wealth that comes with high income and argue that we shouldn't tax the rich so much even when the top 1% own 90% of the wealth

At what point do we worry about the disparity in wealth okie? When the top 1% own 99% of the wealth? 99.9%?
okie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 08:07 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

It's not only practical, it's the only option left.
Nonsense. It is not the only option left. Besides, is robbing all the wealth from anyone that has it and then spending it into oblivion, does that make sense? Absolutely none in my opinion.
Quote:
You're not going to get blood out of a turnip no matter how hard you try.
Then quit planting more turnips.

Quote:
Who wants to tax non-real estate property? When you buy any luxury item, you pay tax at the time of purchase.
Apparently parados does. He wants to tax wealth.
Quote:
What's your point? Your list including bank account interest, stocks, bonds, mutual funds all have capital gains tax.
Your arguments never make any sense, because you fail to understand the fundamentals on any topic.
Do you even read the posts before you start throwing out your insults? Parados proposed taxing wealth, and that is why I started listing just a few of the things that constitute wealth, and asking some very pertinent questions, like how in the world would the government be able to do that? Can you grasp the concept, cicerone?
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 08:10 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
Of course it would be difficult to tax wealth directly. That is why we tax income as a substitute. But you want to ignore the wealth that comes with high income and argue that we shouldn't tax the rich so much even when the top 1% own 90% of the wealth

At what point do we worry about the disparity in wealth okie? When the top 1% own 99% of the wealth? 99.9%?
So is confiscation of wealth to try to make everyone equal, is that your solution, parados?
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 09:10 pm
@okie,
Taxes are NOT confiscating wealth. Saying it is only puts you in a select group of really stupid people okie.

I have never said everyone should have the same amount of money. Nor have I ever said the purposes of taxes is to make everyone have the same amount of money.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 09:11 pm
@okie,
Quote:
Do you even read the posts before you start throwing out your insults?

I often wonder that about you okie.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  3  
Reply Fri 17 Dec, 2010 11:44 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Taxes are NOT confiscating wealth. Saying it is only puts you in a select group of really stupid people okie.



A nonsensical categorical statement that is contradicted by numerous, well known historical examples. Some taxes have indeed been expressly designed for the confiscation of the wealth of targeted groups or classes. Not all taxes have this characteristic: however no one here has to my knowledge suggested that all taxes are confiscatory in effect or in intent.

To make such an obviously foolish assertion and then to follow with an equally categorical assertion that anyoue who disagrees is necessesarily "really stupid" is ... (how shall I say it ??) ... really stupid.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 01:40 am
@okie,
cicerone imposter wrote:
It's not only practical, it's the only option left.

okie wrote:
Nonsense. It is not the only option left. Besides, is robbing all the wealth from anyone that has it and then spending it into oblivion, does that make sense? Absolutely none in my opinion.
ci: Who's talking about "robbing all the wealth?" Your dumber than a rock! Most of your assumptions being wrong, and end wrong.


ci wrote: You're not going to get blood out of a turnip no matter how hard you try.
okie wrote:
Then quit planting more turnips.
ci: You're the farmer; not me!


ci wrote:
Who wants to tax non-real estate property? When you buy any luxury item, you pay tax at the time of purchase.

okie wrote:
Apparently parados does. He wants to tax wealth.
ci: I don't care what parados supposedly said. I'm responding to your post.

ci wrote:
What's your point? Your list including bank account interest, stocks, bonds, mutual funds all have capital gains tax.
Your arguments never make any sense, because you fail to understand the fundamentals on any topic.

okie wrote:
Do you even read the posts before you start throwing out your insults? Parados proposed taxing wealth, and that is why I started listing just a few of the things that constitute wealth, and asking some very pertinent questions, like how in the world would the government be able to do that? Can you grasp the concept, cicerone?

ci: okie, You're the one who never understands concepts. Your responses are always in the extreme without understanding the topic in any way shape or form.

Show us where anybody on a2k suggested taxing "all the wealth?" Like I said, you're dumber than a rock!
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 07:51 am
Is this where the US economy is headed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY065gIatI8
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 09:25 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:

A nonsensical categorical statement that is contradicted by numerous, well known historical examples. Some taxes have indeed been expressly designed for the confiscation of the wealth of targeted groups or classes.

Perhaps you can give a real world example of this in the US then george. I look forward to your support for your claim. Okie only pays taxes in the US, so examples outside the US won't really apply to our conversation.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 09:59 am
@parados,
I second this request.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 10:34 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Quote:

A nonsensical categorical statement that is contradicted by numerous, well known historical examples. Some taxes have indeed been expressly designed for the confiscation of the wealth of targeted groups or classes.

Perhaps you can give a real world example of this in the US then george. I look forward to your support for your claim. Okie only pays taxes in the US, so examples outside the US won't really apply to our conversation.

Now you very conveniently wish to restrict the domain of your own entirely unqualified and categorical assertion about confiscatory taxes ... to the United States. Unfortunately it is a bit late for that now, as your assertion was clearly unqualified and universal, and, in the context, deceptively self-serving. Our constitutional protections and (sadly diminishing) history of limited powers in Federal governments have (so far) largely protected us from such evils, though to listen to contemporary demands from the far left we may not be so far from them today.

You are a rather fractious, self-serving little nit picker who appears to regularly stoop to any device to pedantically "prove" the rightness of your evasions and deceptions. However that doesn't work with me.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 11:14 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Now you very conveniently wish to restrict the domain of your own entirely unqualified and categorical assertion about confiscatory taxes ...

Now you want to ignore the context of my statement?

Who is being deceptive?

Quote:
You are a rather fractious, self-serving little nit picker who appears to regularly stoop to any device to pedantically "prove" the rightness of your evasions and deceptions. However that doesn't work with me

Ah.. you prefer your own self serving nit picking I see. How is that working out for you?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 03:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I suggest you learn how to quote people here. Then you might be able to tackle learning about economics. In other words, to actually have the capacity to understand economics, you should at least be able to demonstrate an ability to format your posts on this forum appropriately. Another analogy would be to learn to roll over, then crawl, then walk, before you try to run.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 03:45 pm
@okie,
You make accusations without providing proof/evidence. Your MO is worthless on a2k where too many people question your opinions for which your non-answers and wrong answers are universal. You must first demonstrate what you are talking about by providing evidence for which you make an accusation.

You fail the simple rules of debate.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2010 05:29 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Too much federal spending causes job losses: for example FDR, GHB, and BHO presidencies.
Cycloptichorn wrote:
2009 and 2010 were years in which American corporations saw record profits and have scads of cash on hand - more than they have ever had. At the same time, jobs have been shed at a tremendous rate. That's pretty good evidence that your claim is false.

Actually, that is pretty good evidence that:
(1) the 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 years of Democrat majorities in Congress,
(2) the 2007, 2008, 2009 years of the Bush presidency, and,
(3) the 2009 and 2010 years of the Obama presidency,
have caused a significant economic anomaly.
Quote:

http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged?va=anomaly&x=22&y=10
Main Entry: anom·a·ly Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: näml, -li
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): -es
Etymology: Latin anomalia, from Greek anmalia, from anmalos + -ia
1 : the state or fact of being out of place, out of true, or out of a normal or expected position : INEQUALITY, UNEVENNESS: as a : the angular distance of a planet from its perihelion as seen from the sun b (1) : the difference between the mean of any meteorological element or phase of that element over a given time at a particular place and the mean of the same element or phase over the same time for all other points on the same parallel of latitude (2) : the difference between the current value of a meteorological element and its long-term average c : a deviation of optical properties of a crystal from its apparent symmetry as expressed in its external form -- usually used in the phrase optical anomaly
2 : deviation from the common rule : IRREGULARITY <that supreme triumph of British anomaly, the unreformed House of Lords -- R.W.Chapman>
3 : something anomalous : something irregular or abnormal: as a : a word form, set of inflectional forms, construction, or idiom analogous to few or no others (as the conjugation of the verb to be or stood, past tense of stand) b biology : a deviation in excess of normal variation from the form characteristic of a natural group c geology : a local departure from the general regional conditions (as of gravity, magnetism, radioactivity, or topography)
4 : something out of keeping especially with established or accepted notions of fitness or order <her religion was no anomaly but perfectly natural -- George Santayana>

Quote:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2009/pdf/hist.pdf
Year.......FEDERAL RECEIPTS
1980......$0.517 trillion [CARTER]
1988….…$0.909 trillion [REAGAN]
1992.......$1.091 trillion [BUSH41]
2000......$2.025 trillion [CLINTON]
2008......$2.521 trillion [BUSH43]
2010.......$2.931 trillion [OBAMA] as of November 2010

Year.......FEDERAL OUTLAYS
1980.......$0.591 trillion [CARTER]
1988….….$1.064 trillion [REAGAN] average annual increase = 0.059 trillion
1992........$1.382 trillion [BUSH41] average annual increase = 0.080 trillion
2000.......$1.789 trillion [CLINTON] average annual increase = 0.051 trillion
2008.......$2.931 trillion [BUSH43] average annual increase = 0.143 trillion
2010........$3.399 trillion [OBAMA] as of November 2010 average annual increase = 0.244 trillion


Quote:

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt
Year……TOTAL US CIVIL EMPLOYMENT
1980……………..99 million [CARTER]
1988…………… 115 million [REAGAN]
1992…………….118 million [BUSH41]
2000……………137 million [CLINTON]
2007………..….146 million [BUSH43]
2008………….. 145 million [BUSH43]
2009,……….....140 million [OBAMA]
2010.……………139 million [OBAMA] as of November 2010

Year.…….PERCENT OF CIVILIAN POPULATION EMPLOYED
1980…………………………………….59.2 [CARTER]
1988…………………………………….62.3 [REAGAN]
1992…………………………………….61.5 [BUSH41]
2000…………………………………….64.4 [CLINTON]
2007…………………………………….63.0 [BUSH43]
2008…………………………………….62.2 [BUSH43]
2009…………………………………….59.3 [OBAMA]
2010…………………………………….58.2 [OBAMA] as of November 2010



0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 02:45 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Every time I describe Obama as right of center or even centrist, I have "suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous" conservatives. Glad the "general public" recognizes what I recognize.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 02:47 pm
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
Conservatives and the T.E.A. party scored a few key political victories for Americans this week.


Then they must have done things they never intended to do. Conservatives and the Tea Totalitarians hate America and want it to finish its journey to Third World status.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 02:50 pm
@okie,
Quote:
First of all, imposter, ask yourself if taxing wealth is practical.


Well, is it less practical than taxing poverty, which you favor? Horse whip all those people living on $25,000/annum seems to be your mantra.
0 Replies
 
 

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