114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
okie
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 08:06 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yes I believe Bloomberg has it right, because it agrees with simple common sense.
okie
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 08:58 pm
The following is interesting. I tried to find if government employees have gotten or will get a raise, and I was not able to find anything. If anyone knows, that would be interesting.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/10/government-expected-nix-cost-living-increase-social-security/?test=latestnews
"Government Expected to Nix Cost-of-Living Increase for Social Security Again"
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Oct, 2010 09:15 pm
@okie,
Quote:
it agrees with simple common sense.


Common sense can not be agreed with.

You have never demonstrated a familiarity with common sense.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 09:51 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

The following is interesting. I tried to find if government employees have gotten or will get a raise, and I was not able to find anything. If anyone knows, that would be interesting.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/10/government-expected-nix-cost-living-increase-social-security/?test=latestnews
"Government Expected to Nix Cost-of-Living Increase for Social Security Again"


RJB posted this several weeks ago in this very thread.

But you are happy about this, right?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 10:12 am
@okie,
They've already made the decision to not provide any COLA for next year.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 10:13 am
@okie,
Your sentence is not logical in any shape or form.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 11:53 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

"Government Expected to Nix Cost-of-Living Increase for Social Security Again"


It was obvious at least a month ago that the economic data used to determine whether there was going to be a COLA for 2011 was not going to support one. I find it curious that this "news" was suddenly reported yesterday as if it was a surprise. I am not surprised that Fox would use the phrase "Government...to Nix...."
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 12:01 pm
@realjohnboy,
The Fox article is accurate, and I see no problem with reporting it as much or more as we near the beginning of next year. I know of at least one close relative that receives a very low social security amount, and she lives on a very low budget all year long, and she is interested in that news. I see no reason to hide the story or report it only once in a very low key manner. If Bush was in office, the other networks would probably be headlining it every day.

The cogent point I would like to know about this however, is whether government employee salaries will be frozen, or even reduced given we are running monumental debts these days? What is good for the goose should be good for the gander.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 12:09 pm
@okie,
I am surprised that you say you couldn't find data on pay raises for federal civilian and military employees.
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 01:14 pm
Quote:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/11/soros-i-cant-stop-a-republican-avalanche/?partner=rss&emc=rss
New York Times
Monday, October 11, 2010
8:38 am
Soros: I Can’t Stop a Republican ‘Avalanche’
By SEWELL CHAN
George Soros, the billionaire financier who was an energetic Democratic donor in the last several election cycles but is sitting this one out, is not feeling optimistic about Democratic prospects.

“I made an exception getting involved in 2004,” Mr. Soros, 80, said in a brief interview Friday at a forum sponsored by the Bretton Woods Committee, which promotes understanding of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.

“And since I didn’t succeed in 2004, I remained engaged in 2006 and 2008. But I’m basically not a party man. I’d just been forced into that situation by what I considered the excesses of the Bush administration.”

Mr. Soros, a champion of liberal causes, has been directing his money to groups that work on health care and the environment, rather than electoral politics. Asked if the prospect of Republican control of one or both houses of Congress concerned him, he said: “It does, because I think they are pushing the wrong policies, but I’m not in a position to stop it. I don’t believe in standing in the way of an avalanche.”
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 01:39 pm
Quote:

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=19908&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD
Three Reasons Obama's Education Vision Fails

President Barack Obama is making his bid to be "the education president," yet Obama's education vision deserves an F, says Nick Gillespie, editor in chief of Reason.tv and Reason.com.

In a new video, Gillespie gives three reasons for Obama's failing grade:

Money talks.

Obama says that the educational system needs new ideas and more money.
Despite a doubling in inflation-adjusted per-pupil spending since the early 1970s, student achievement is flat at best.

While he brags constantly about his Race to the Top initiative, in which states competed for $4 billion to fund innovative programs, he's spent more than $80 billion in no-strings-attached stimulus funds to maintain the educational status quo.

Choice cuts.

Candidate Obama said that he'd try any reform idea regardless of ideology.
Yet one of his first education-related moves after taking office was to aid his Senate mentor, Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), in killing a successful and popular D.C. voucher program that let low-income residents exercise the same choice Obama did in sending his daughters to private school.

The unions forever.

The two largest teachers unions, the American Federation of Teachers and the National Education Association (NEA), overwhelmingly supported Obama with their votes and their contributions.

Some 95 percent of the groups' campaign contributions go to Democratic candidates and the NEA spends more money on elections than Microsoft, ExxonMobil, Walmart and the AFL-CIO combined.

No wonder Obama's big talking point is that he wants to add 10,000 more teachers to public payrolls despite the fact that there are already more teachers per student than ever.

Source: Lisa Snell, "Three Reasons Obama's Education Vision Fails," Reason Foundation, October 7, 2010.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 01:53 pm
Joe Wilson was 100% correct!
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 03:15 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

I am surprised that you say you couldn't find data on pay raises for federal civilian and military employees.

I do not sit in front of a computer 24/7 to find everything. I gave it another stab and found this, that there was a 2% pay raise for federal employees in 2010, even though Social Security recipients got nothing. In 2011, it looks like Social Security recipients will again get nothing, while federal employees may get 1.4%. This causes me to ask, why do they deserve a raise at all, perhaps instead they should be cut, after all that is what a responsible business would do if they were going broke, which the government is. I would however give the military a raise because I think they deserve it, but civilian employees, no, I think we should look at a freeze as long as the government is running huge deficits. After all, in 2010, federal payroll with benefits was something over an estimated 250 billion.
http://www.myfederalretirement.com/public/344.cfm
"UPDATE: December 24, 2009 - Yesterday, President Obama issued an executive order implementing an overall 2.0 percent 2010 federal pay raise for civilian employees. "

I did find this also in regard to 2011, indicating Obama's budget has a 1.4% pay increase for federal employees and the military. I think the reason Obama will not freeze government employee wages is because those are his voters, and he does not want to over alienate them. Meanwhile, social security recipients apparently will again get nothing.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/02/budget_15_pay_raise_for_civili.html
"Civilian federal employees and the military would get a 1.4 percent pay increase next year, according to President Obama's fiscal 2011 budget proposal.
That's much lower than the 2 percent civilian pay jump this year and the military's 3.4 percent increase. The proposed military pay bump is the smallest bump since 1973."

Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 03:19 pm
@okie,
Quote:
I would however give the military a raise because I think they deserve it, but civilian employees, no


Why do they deserve it, but hardworking people in other areas don't? Be specific.

Quote:
Meanwhile, social security recipients apparently will again get nothing.


But, you're happy about this. You think this is appropriate, right? I mean, you surely wouldn't be arguing for any sort of expansion of this Entitlement program - would you?

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 03:31 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:
I would however give the military a raise because I think they deserve it, but civilian employees, no

Why do they deserve it, but hardworking people in other areas don't? Be specific.

Because national security is a crucial job to be done, while many bureaucracies are more wasteful and unnecessary.

Quote:
Quote:
Meanwhile, social security recipients apparently will again get nothing.

But, you're happy about this. You think this is appropriate, right? I mean, you surely wouldn't be arguing for any sort of expansion of this Entitlement program - would you?
Cycloptichorn

No, I never said I was happy about it, nor have I ever said I was for expansion of the program. I think however that federal employees do not automatically deserve raises as a matter of course every year. In fact as long as we are running huge deficits, I believe we should consider freezes, even more layoffs and perhaps cuts in pay, especially for the higher ups that undoubtedly receive big pay packages, even when they do not do a good job.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 03:36 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:
I would however give the military a raise because I think they deserve it, but civilian employees, no

Why do they deserve it, but hardworking people in other areas don't? Be specific.

Because national security is a crucial job to be done, while many bureaucracies are more wasteful and unnecessary.


Surely SOME of those other jobs are in fact crucial. You don't contend that only the military is crucial, and all other jobs are just wasteful - right?

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Meanwhile, social security recipients apparently will again get nothing.

But, you're happy about this. You think this is appropriate, right? I mean, you surely wouldn't be arguing for any sort of expansion of this Entitlement program - would you?
Cycloptichorn

No, I never said I was happy about it, nor have I ever said I was for expansion of the program. I think however that federal employees do not automatically deserve raises as a matter of course every year. In fact as long as we are running huge deficits, I believe we should consider freezes, even more layoffs and perhaps cuts in pay, especially for the higher ups that undoubtedly receive big pay packages, even when they do not do a good job.
[/quote]

So, you're not happy about SS not being expanded? You would be happier if the program was expanded? How do you reconcile this with your constant drumbeat against entitlement programs and your support for politicians who belittle and bemoan them?

My guess is that you're not happy because it's YOUR bottom line that isn't rising. You do collect SS, right?

Just want to make sure that you are clear on the contradictory nature of your opinions here, Okie.

Cycloptichorn
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 03:50 pm
@okie,
Good job, Okie. I found the same numbers you did regarding the 2% increase in pay for civilian (vs military) federal employees in 2010 and the proposed 1.4% in 2011. I also found the latter Bush era increases appear to have been more like 3 or 4% annually. Then there are the COLA increases for members of Congress for a number of years.
Putting all of that into a single table would indeed be time consuming. There are a lot of footnotes to wade through. And some of the readers' comments are not only brutal one way or the other but raise some questions that I can't answer.
It is not clear to me that Obama has the authority to reduce the COLA for federal employees except by some declaration of a fiscal emergency, which he did in 2010. Did you notice that? I may be wrong; I can't find that footnote.
Anyway, the lack of a SSAE COLA will hurt Dems, even though it was not, as Fox reported in its headline, a "nixing" of an increase by the government. Fox got the facts right further into the report.
I am certainly not defending COLA's for federal employees while us old folks get squat.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 03:51 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
To clarify one important point, I do not collect Social Security. I probably will kick it in next year or the year after, I have not yet decided. And when I do, it is not the pay raises I will care about for myself, it is for those close relatives that I know about, that receive very low amounts. In fact, I would gladly take the money that I have contributed and they could forget sending me any checks, but of course they do not give me that option.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 03:57 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

To clarify one important point, I do not collect Social Security. I probably will kick it in next year or the year after, I have not yet decided. And when I do, it is not the pay raises I will care about for myself, it is for those close relatives that I know about, that receive very low amounts. In fact, I would gladly take the money that I have contributed and they could forget sending me any checks, but of course they do not give me that option.


But, you think your relatives SHOULD receive low amounts. If anything at all. You are against expanding the amount we pay out with Entitlement programs. Right?

Cyclotpichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Oct, 2010 03:58 pm
@okie,
One point to you, cyclops, to control wages by the government, one of the first things I would do is bring guys like Franklin Raines in to testify before Congress, encourage him to give back his tens of millions he received while he was cooking the books. Also, if he ended up being convicted of fraud, as I think he probably was involved in, he should sit in jail just like the Enron folks have done. At least we should make an example of the lawbreakers in government related jobs, so that future criminal activity would be discouraged. That would be a good start. How about it cyclops? You surely share my belief that we should demand an honest government to serve us? After all, we are paying them to do it.
 

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