Where is the US economy headed?

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Yes, I agree. But they didn't, and the fault for that lies with them, not with their opposition.

Fine, I guess....but I know I've heard people say that the reason we don't have single payer is because of the Republicans. You'd have to be as adamentely opposed to that statement as you are to this one.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Dont fret. Sometime in the next 100 or 150 years we "may" get single payer.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

No, you don't. You are hiding behind the fact that the other side was all mean and wouldn't let your majority bring something up for a vote - but there's no evidence that this was actually true. If you want to blame the other side for blocking legislation, you have to show that the other side actually blocked the legislation.

The entire point of the filibuster is that it forces the majority to negotiate. There is no evidence that the Republicans attempted to do that at all, and the reason? They didn't give a **** about the issue.

Each and every one of these claims of yours is NOT true.
You have NOT provided evidence to show that any of them are true.

In 2005, Barack Obama was one of the 45 Democrat senators who refused to support cloture to bring the Republican's bill to rectify Fannie & Freddy to a vote. Obama continues to NOT rectify Fannie & Freddy even though Fannie & Freddy were the first cause of the current recession.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Don't you think ican should do standup?

0 Replies

@ican711nm,

There's no evidence the Dems refused to support Cloture at all, because the bill was never brought to the floor for a vote. You can't blame the Dems for not voting on something that they were never given a chance to vote on.

This whole exercise of blaming the minority for the majority's failure to pass a bill is a joke. It might be less of a joke if the Republicans actually tried to overcome the minority, but they didn't even attempt to do so.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn, your claims are NOT true.

The Senate Odems (i.e., Obamademocrats) were asked by the Republicans to support cloture. None of them agreed. They were adamant in their refusal to support cloture. I can blame the Odems for their refusals, all 45 of them.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn, your claims are NOT true.

The Senate Odems (i.e., Obamademocrats) were asked by the Republicans to support cloture. None of them agreed. They were adamant in their refusal to support cloture. I can blame the Odems for their refusals, all 45 of them.

Answer this question, Ican: Did the Republicans bring the matter to a vote in front of the Senate, or not? Did they ask for unanimous consent to close debate, or not?

If the answer is that they did not, then you can't blame the Democrats for not supporting it, as you have no idea how they would have voted given the chance. This is completely pathetic on your part and unless you have something more interesting to add, I'll simply move on.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

Understanding Ican

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q_h5ZyjJWA&feature=related

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I'll simply move on.
Cycloptichorn

Good idea.
On Monday, the Dems will put the financial "reform" bill up for a vote. 51 votes in the Senate are needed for passage. After, I say after it is put in, opponents can filibuster (or promise to do so if no one wants to go through the ordeal of talking all night) and then proponents can seek cloture on the debate. That requires 60 votes.
Am I close to being right in describing the process?

My bet is that this bill will pass without it going through the filibuster/cloture cycle. And at least 6 Repubs will vote for it. I can name names.

3 Replies

@realjohnboy,

Probably another trojan horse in the name of positive reform. Only a naive Republican would vote for any Democrat bill, period.

1 Reply

@okie,

"Just 11% of all voters rate Congress’ job performance as good or excellent, showing no change from the previous survey. Fifty-seven percent (57%) rate the job Congress is doing as poor, down seven points from a month ago and down 14 from 71% in February, the highest negative finding in over 40 months of tracking. "

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_performance

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@realjohnboy,

realjohnboy wrote:

My bet is that this bill will pass without it going through the filibuster/cloture cycle. And at least 6 Repubs will vote for it. I can name names.

Really? The Republicans just voted against even discussing the banking reform bill. They sure seem to be in a filibustering mood to me.

I'm happy to bet against you. I bet the bill will end up passing through at least one cycle of filibustering and cloturing.

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Quote:

From the Desk of:
Steve Elliott, Grassfire Nation

On Monday, Sens. Kerry (D-MA) and Graham (R-SC) will unveil their broad climate and energy tax to the American people.

I say tax, because that is precisely what it is - a huge regressive tax that will impact every American and simply stated, devastate the poor and those on fixed incomes...

Allow me to explain.

President Obama's plan is to force power companies, refineries and factories and manufacturing plants to reduce their carbon emissions. He plans to accomplish hat feat through heavy taxation - meaning you and I will pay the tax at the pump, on our heating/cooling and electricity bills.

Those in the lowest and fixed income brackets spend a greater percentage of their income on gas for cars and utilities and stand to be hit the hardest by this latest tax scheme.

But there is good news...

The Hill reports, "it remains unclear whether they can gain traction for [Cap and Trade] legislation that includes controversial limits on greenhouse gases."

..., that's our window of opportunity, and one that we cannot miss in the coming week...

+ + More than 300,000 Petitions Opposing Climate Tax Scheme

Only days ago, I wrote you saying we were 15,000 petitions shy of our goal of 300,000 petitions - petitions that we will hand-deliver to every Senate office, beginning next Monday when the bill is announced.

Since that message, we've added more than 21,000 petitions, with thousands more signing every hour!

This is precisely the kind of blistering grassroots feedback that needs to sweep into Washington, D.C. next week opposing this latest tax plot. And given the fact that support for the plan is on shaky footing already, your petitions could make the difference between Cap and Trade moving forward or dying.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Answer this question, Ican: Did the Republicans bring the matter to a vote in front of the Senate, or not? Did they ask for unanimous consent to close debate, or not?

If the answer is that they did not, then you can't blame the Democrats for not supporting it, as you have no idea how they would have voted given the chance. This is completely pathetic on your part and unless you have something more interesting to add, I'll simply move on.

The Senate Republicans did not submit to the whole Senate the motion passed by the Senate committee to rectify Fannie & Freddie, because they knew they would first require the passage of a cloture vote to prevent the bill from being filibustered. They knew they were unable to obtain at least 5 Senate Democrat votes to add to their 55 votes to pass cloture so that they could subsequently obtain a vote by the whole Senate on their motion.

Quote:

http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged?va=cloture&x=28&y=8
Main Entry: 1clo·ture
...
: the closing or limitation of debate in a legislative body by calling for a vote or by other authorized methods ...

Because no Senate Democrat agreed to vote for cloture--not even Senator Barack Obama, the Republican motion to rectify Fannie & Freddie was thereby denied BY THE DEMOCRATS A VOTE ON THE REPUBLICAN'S MOTION by the whole Senate to rectify Fannie & Freddie.

Subsequently, "in May 2006, John McCain signed on as a co-sponsor of the stalled bill, in the hopes of gathering more co-sponsors and getting a vote in the 109th Congress before the bill would die. The bill did not obtain any of the necessary support from the Democrats, and once again, the bill died when the 109th Congress ended."

Cycloptichorn, your repeated false claim that the Democrats were not primarily responsible for the continuation and subsequent expansion of an unrectified Fannie & Freddie, is not only "pathetic," it is stupid and irresponsible.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

Quote:

The Senate Republicans did not submit to the whole Senate the motion passed by the Senate committee to rectify Fannie & Freddie, because they knew they would first require the passage of a cloture vote to prevent the bill from being filibustered. They knew they were unable to obtain at least 5 Senate Democrat votes to add to their 55 votes to pass cloture so that they could subsequently obtain a vote by the whole Senate on their motion.

Then that is a failure of the majority to attract Democrats to their bill. They did not negotiate and work with the other side to present a bill which was acceptable. They don't even seem to have attempted to do so.

Therefore it is ridiculous to blame the Democrats, and not historically accurate in the slightest to claim that they are responsible for holding it up. The truth is that many Republicans did not want this bill passed and they just used the Dems as an excuse not to do so.

I would also note two things:

1, that the Republicans failed to pass not just one bill but something like 8 separate bills on this issue over the years when they ran both houses; and

2, as soon as the Democrats took control in 2007, they DID pass this bill and it was signed into law by Bush.

IF the Democrats were so against regulations, then why did they pass essentially the same bill in 2007?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

ican711nm wrote:

Quote:
The Hill reports, "it remains unclear whether they can gain traction for [Cap and Trade] legislation that includes controversial limits on greenhouse gases."

ican, wait until you find out some Democrat ideas for cap and trade, stuff like outlawing wood stoves, inspectors for every house in the country before you can sell it, stuff like that, federal oversight and monitoring of how you take care of trees that you plant, and it makes one wonder if not only the Democrats are not only whacko liberals, but are they even sane? After listening to some of this on Rush this morning, Mark Stein sitting in for him, an idea popped into my mind, how come the Democrats have not outlawed lightning yet, after all, lightning caused fires must wreak untold havoc in terms of greenhouse gases and how does nature or the Good Lord get by with not having a permit or something from the Democrats Federal Government before allowing such a thing to happen, just how can that happen?

There are tons of links on this, but here is one:
http://www.10thamendmentfoundation.org/Cap_and_Trade.html

1 Reply

Has everyone seen and heard this from Ron Bloom, Obama's Manufacturing Czar, apparently another admirer of Chairman Mao. How many of those does he now have in his administration? Pretty telling in terms of what Obama believes and wants to do. It only continues to confirm what many of us have known, that Obama is a Marxist sympathizer at heart, and probably a dictator wannabe. All of this is pretty amazing that this could happen in our day and generation right here in this United States of America. Wake up America, and sweep these losers out of office this fall, starting with Congress, before they can succeed in destroying any more of our beloved country that so many have already died for.

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

After listening to some of this on Rush this morning, Mark Stein sitting in for him, an idea popped into my mind, how come the Democrats have not outlawed lightning yet, after all, lightning caused fires must wreak untold havoc in terms of greenhouse gases and how does nature or the Good Lord get by with not having a permit or something from the Democrats Federal Government before allowing such a thing to happen, just how can that happen?

I guess that is a good of an example as any of the "ideas" that people that listen to Rush get. One really has to question your intelligence okie.

1 Reply

@parados,

A couple of observations, first you have no sense of humor, and secondly you just do not get how ridiculous some ideas coming from the left are. For example, it is obvious that if lightning was a man-made phenomena, there is absolutely no doubt that the Democrats would be attempting to regulate it or control it in some way. I am simply illustrating the silliness of the liberal agenda by pointing out some of this stuff.

Actually, the whole idea of "saving the earth" is arrogant on its face anyway, as if man would have the ability to either destroy or save the earth, but arrogance and ego is part of the liberal mindset. But perhaps that is consistent with a mindset that also believes power comes from the barrel of a gun as well. See my post about Ron Bloom.

1 Reply

@okie,

Okie,
The almost daily evidence that the Odems (i.e.,Obamademocrats) are followers of Saul Alinsky principles is growing rapidly.

Saul Alinsky wrote:

The revolutionary’s purpose is to undermine the system by taking from the haves and giving it to the have-nots, and then see what happens;
The radical organizer does not have a fixed truth"truth to him is relative and changing; everything to him is relative and changing;
Radicals should be political relativists and should take an agnostic view of means and ends;
The radical is not a reformer of the system but its would-be destroyer;
The most basic principle for radicals is lie to opponents and disarm them by pretending to be moderates and liberals;
The issue is always the revolution;
The stated cause is never the real cause, but only an occasion to advance the real cause which is accumulation of power to make the revolution;
The radical is building his own kingdom, a kingdom of heaven on earth.

In otherwords the Odems are gangsters and should be dealt with as such.

1 Reply

Where is the US economy headed?

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