114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 11:12 am
@ican711nm,
The following quote is my evidence to support my claims:
(1) The S. 190 - “Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 to fix Fanny & Freddie was reported out of committee July 28, 2005;
(2) There was a threat by the Democrats to filibuster to prevent its adoption.
Quote:

http://getsgreased.blogspot.com/2008/09/s-190-federal-housing-enterprise.html
S. 190 - “Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005”

On January 26, 2005, hoping for a different result in the new congress, Sununu, Hagel, and Dole re-introduced legislation (S. 190) to improve oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The bill incorporated many provisions of the Sununu, Hagel, Dole legislation from the prior congress. It passed out of the Committee on another party-line vote of 11 " 9 on July 28, 2005. But again, without a single Democrat vote, the bill was doomed if brought to the floor for the critical 60-vote cloture.

In May 2006, John McCain signed on as a co-sponsor of the stalled bill, in the hopes of gathering more co-sponsors and getting a vote in the 109th Congress before the bill would die. McCain would state, “I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190,to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.” The bill did not obtain any of the necessary support from the Democrats, and once again, the bill died when the 109th Congress ended.

Also see the Wall Street Journal, Tuesday, April 20, 2010, page A21:
"Fannie and Freddie Amnesia" by Peter J. Wallison

H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 11:46 am
@ican711nm,
Nice work Ican Exclamation
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 02:50 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Nice work Ican Exclamation

I wonder if cyclops is reading any of this? I doubt it, and even if he did, he would probably block the thoughts out of his mind and replace them with "Democrats can do no wrong, Democrats can do no wrong, Democrats can do no wrong, it didn't happen, okie and ican, and H2OMan, and all Republicans are right wing nuts."
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 02:55 pm
@ican711nm,
Ican, you left out the relevant part from your post (which was written in 2008, by the way, and is completely unsourced) -

Quote:
Again the bill was not scheduled to go to the floor where Democrats would certainly have defeated it by voting against cloture and prevented an up or down vote.


The bill wasn't scheduled to go to the floor. There was no vote on it. Your writer is surmising the reason why but offers no proof of that reason. Remember, the bar for passing bills in the US Senate is 50 votes, not 60. If the Republicans cared about this they would have brought it to a vote, and they did not.

If there was no vote, there was no filibuster - period. Not a difficult concept to understand. Do you have quotes of any Democrats vowing to filibuster it?

Only you guys could blame the other side for a failure to even bring a vote forward to the floor - and try to use that to pin the whole financial crisis on them. Not compelling.

Okie, quit being such a damn moron. It makes conversation exceedingly boring.

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 02:56 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

"Democrats can do no wrong, Democrats can do no wrong, Democrats can do no wrong,
it didn't happen, okie and ican, and H2OMan, and all Republicans are right wing nuts."


That is Cyclotroll's mantra, he repeats it over and over in a shrill voice
while he bows in front of one of his many life size statuettes of Obama.

It's sounds like feral cats mating in the alley Wink
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 03:22 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Can you remember any post from ican or okie or H2o that was without an insult?
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 03:50 pm
@plainoldme,


POM is the pot calling the kettle black
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 04:25 pm
Good evening.
It appears that the financial system "reform" legislation being pushed by the administration will come up for a vote in the Senate around next mid-week.
Opposition from some in the Republican leadership is still vocal, but from what I read, it will easily win passage. It may even win by a wider margin if some Repubs, seeing that it will pass, hop on the "anti-Wall Street" train.
I, for what it is worth, am not a big fan of the package of new rules. A lot of the financial meltdown was due to auditors/regulators being totally clueless about what was going on. Or, perhaps, it was due to politicians from both parties being too close to the financial industry.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 04:39 pm
@realjohnboy,
I don't know about this one. I do have concerns about risks taken by banks that are also FDIC insured, and I think this is one point addressed. Could a bank take greater risks, knowing that it's traditional depositors are covered? That is, a bank might be highly successful in traditional banking areas, but let the general public pick up the pieces after a failure for other reasons. I think we could go back to private profit and public risk.

I don't think I'm expressing this clearly, but I'm sure the proposed legislation has some good points. I don't know that they outweigh the bad. I haven't studied it, and probably won't.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 06:23 pm
@roger,
Be careful of studying it too hard. Your head will spin and you could fall down and hurt yourself, Roger.
By the way, I was sitting around with some friends, drinking...I mean THINKING, about how to explain what a "derivative" is. A lady at the table came up with a variation of this as a start.
"Roger and me" assemble a baseball team of professional players (= loans). We sell shares in the team (= a bunch of loans) to investors, telling them that it could be a great investment. There is a lot of small print about Ican being out in left field while Cyclo is in right. All that is disclosed and it is up to the potential investor to note that.
Meanwhile, "Roger and me" are giving other folks the opportunity to bet on how the team will do . That bet is the "derivative."
Roger may or may not warn bettors that some of the players (loans) don't look too good.
In the Goldman case, they are accused of putting together the loans and then advising clients to bet against them.
The case against Goldman is strong, popularly. But it was up to investors to read the fine print. I would have put H2O man in left field.
I am not sure this post adds anything but I started composing it while I was at the dentist today.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 06:56 pm
My perception is that people generally don't think that the hard times are even close to being over. I took note when an observer watching Biden give his rah-rah speech at the brookings institute the other day said that Biden did not act like he believed it either.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/20/AR2010042004726.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 07:13 pm
According to the Senate's rules, 60 or more votes are required to cut off debate and bring a proposed bill to a Senate vote. In 2005 and thereafter the Republicans could not get at leat 5 Democrat votes to add to the 55 Republican votes to bring their bill to rectify Fannie & Freddie to a Senate vote.
Quote:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704671904575193910683111250.html
Fannie and Freddie Amnesia
Taxpayers are on the hook for about $400 billion, partly because Sen. Obama helped to block reform.Article Comments more in Opinion »Email
By PETER J. WALLISON

Now that nearly all the TARP funds used to bail out Wall Street banks have been repaid, the government sponsored enterprises (GSEs) Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac stand out as the source of the greatest taxpayer losses.

The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that, in the wake of the housing bubble and the unprecedented deflation in housing values that resulted, the government's cost to bail out Fannie and Freddie will eventually reach $381 billion. That estimate may be too optimistic.

Last Christmas Eve, Treasury removed the $400 billion cap on what the government might be required to invest in these two GSEs in the future, and this may tell the real story about the cost to taxpayers. In typical Washington fashion, everyone has amnesia about how this disaster occurred.

The story is all too familiar. Politicians in positions of authority today had an opportunity to prevent this fiasco but did nothing. Now"in the name of the taxpayers"they want more power, but they have never been called to account for their earlier failings.

One chapter in this story took place in July 2005, when the Senate Banking Committee, then controlled by the Republicans, adopted tough regulatory legislation for the GSEs on a party-line vote"all Republicans in favor, all Democrats opposed. The bill would have established a new regulator for Fannie and Freddie and given it authority to ensure that they maintained adequate capital, properly managed their interest rate risk, had adequate liquidity and reserves, and controlled their asset and investment portfolio growth.

These authorities were necessary to control the GSEs' risk-taking, but opposition by Fannie and Freddie"then the most politically powerful firms in the country"had consistently prevented reform.

The date of the Senate Banking Committee's action is important. It was in 2005 that the GSEs"which had been acquiring increasing numbers of subprime and Alt-A loans for many years in order to meet their HUD-imposed affordable housing requirements"accelerated the purchases that led to their 2008 insolvency. If legislation along the lines of the Senate committee's bill had been enacted in that year, many if not all the losses that Fannie and Freddie have suffered, and will suffer in the future, might have been avoided.

Why was there no action in the full Senate? As most Americans know today, it takes 60 votes to cut off debate in the Senate, and the Republicans had only 55. To close debate and proceed to the enactment of the committee-passed bill, the Republicans needed five Democrats to vote with them. But in a 45 member Democratic caucus that included Barack Obama and the current Senate Banking Chairman Christopher Dodd (D., Conn.), these votes could not be found.

Recently, President Obama has taken to accusing others of representing "special interests." In an April radio address he stated that his financial regulatory proposals were struggling in the Senate because "the financial industry and its powerful lobby have opposed modest safeguards against the kinds of reckless risks and bad practices that led to this very crisis."

He should know. As a senator, he was the third largest recipient of campaign contributions from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, behind only Sens. Chris Dodd and John Kerry.

With hypocrisy like this at the top, is it any wonder that nearly 80% of Americans, according to new Pew polling, don't trust the federal government or its ability to solve the country's problems?

Mr. Wallison is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 08:27 pm
@realjohnboy,
Well, naturally Roger is going truthfully answer direct questions, but these are sophisticated bettors. If they don't ask, they are presumed to have done the research. Keep in mind that Roger isn't making book on this event. That's being done by Goldmine Sacks. They know about this stuff, but get their cut no matter how the bets are laid down. Since nobody bothered to ask, Roger has placed a few side bets on John's team. This is only of concern to Roger, Goldmine, and John.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2010 07:19 am
@realjohnboy,
I'll be pitching.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2010 08:19 am
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

According to the Senate's rules, 60 or more votes are required to cut off debate and bring a proposed bill to a Senate vote. In 2005 and thereafter the Republicans could not get at leat 5 Democrat votes to add to the 55 Republican votes to bring their bill to rectify Fannie & Freddie to a Senate vote.
Quote:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704671904575193910683111250.html
Fannie and Freddie Amnesia
Taxpayers are on the hook for about $400 billion, partly because Sen. Obama helped to block reform.Article Comments more in Opinion »Email
By PETER J. WALLISON

Now that nearly all the TARP funds used to bail out Wall Street banks have been repaid, the government sponsored enterprises (GSEs) Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac stand out as the source of the greatest taxpayer losses.

The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that, in the wake of the housing bubble and the unprecedented deflation in housing values that resulted, the government's cost to bail out Fannie and Freddie will eventually reach $381 billion. That estimate may be too optimistic.
.........
........
He should know. As a senator, he was the third largest recipient of campaign contributions from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, behind only Sens. Chris Dodd and John Kerry.

With hypocrisy like this at the top, is it any wonder that nearly 80% of Americans, according to new Pew polling, don't trust the federal government or its ability to solve the country's problems?

Mr. Wallison is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.



Great post, ican. I deleted some of your quotes, but kept most of what I thought was highly pertinent, that being this whole debacle falls squarely on the shoulders of people like Dodd, Frank, and other Democrats, and now Obama also protecting his pals.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2010 08:28 am
@okie,
... except for the fact that it simply isn't true. It doesn't take 60 votes to cut off debate in the Senate unless the other side invokes the cloture rule. MANY votes are passed in the Senate without a 60-vote majority. And this has always been the rule.

If you don't bring a vote to the floor, you don't get to blame the minority for blocking the vote. Not a hard concept to understand.

You guys know so little about how our political system works, it's sad.

Cycloptichorn
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2010 11:46 am
@Cycloptichorn,
It take 60 votes to cut off debate in the Senate (i.e., apply the cloture rule) if the other side makes it obvious they will filibuster to prevent a vote on a bill. While many votes are passed in the Senate without a 60-vote majority, several have been prevented from being passed by merely the threat of filibuster to KILL A BILL. And this has always been the rule.

We CONSERVATIVES guys know a great deal about how our political system ACTUALLY works.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2010 11:50 am
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

It take 60 votes to cut off debate in the Senate (i.e., apply the cloture rule) if the other side makes it obvious they will filibuster to prevent a vote on a bill. While many votes are passed in the Senate without a 60-vote majority, several have been prevented from being passed by merely the threat of filibuster to KILL A BILL. And this has always been the rule.

We CONSERVATIVES guys know a great deal about how our political system ACTUALLY works.


No, you don't. You are hiding behind the fact that the other side was all mean and wouldn't let your majority bring something up for a vote - but there's no evidence that this was actually true. If you want to blame the other side for blocking legislation, you have to show that the other side actually blocked the legislation.

The entire point of the filibuster is that it forces the majority to negotiate. There is no evidence that the Republicans attempted to do that at all, and the reason? They didn't give a **** about the issue.

Cycloptichorn
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2010 02:47 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Well Cyclops...there were a lot of democrats who didn't bring stuff to the floor during the healthcare 'debates' because they knew that they didn't have the 60 votes.

I don't think it's a crazy assumption to make; we never would have gotten single payer, even though a simple majority may have supported it. The republicans blocked that vote without ever having to actually do anything to block the vote. Remember how you and I bitched about this, call the democrats pansies; complained that they should actually make the republicans do an actual filibuster (for 1000 straight hours if they must).
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2010 02:53 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

Well Cyclops...there were a lot of democrats who didn't bring stuff to the floor during the healthcare 'debates' because they knew that they didn't have the 60 votes.


That's fine - but they cannot make the argument that the Republicans used the filibuster to block those aspects unless they were included in the final bill. That's just the way it works.

Though I will add that the Republicans DID Filibuster the final bill and the Democrats overcame their filibuster.

Quote:
I don't think it's a crazy assumption to make; we never would have gotten single payer, even though a simple majority may have supported it. The republicans blocked that vote without ever having to actually do anything to block the vote. Remember how you and I bitched about this, call the democrats pansies; complained that they should actually make the republicans do an actual filibuster (for 1000 straight hours if they must).


Yes, I agree. But they didn't, and the fault for that lies with them, not with their opposition.

Cycloptichorn
 

Related Topics

The States Need Help - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Fiscal Cliff - Question by JPB
Let GM go Bankrupt - Discussion by Woiyo9
Sovereign debt - Question by JohnJD
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.1 seconds on 06/28/2024 at 06:11:12