@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
okie wrote:
Exactly and 100% correct, ican, and the leftists on this forum cannot deny facts. Hitler was a leftist, absolutely no doubt, and absolutely undeniable, unless of course you are a leftist and you cannot face reality. I am starting to come to the conclusion that such people cannot be reasoned with. They simply must be defeated politically. The real question boils down to this, are there enough people left that can reason, that still understand the constitution, that will stand up and be counted and vote for freedom and liberty, and personal responsibility, that is the question?
No, Hitler was instead a fanatic who embraced intense beliefs surrounding the supposed cause of German political and economic setbacks during and after WWI, later assigning blame to a worldwide conspiracy of Jews.
Nothing you just said in the above disagrees with what I have asserted. Hitler was a fanatic, yes I agree, and he used political and economic setbacks to further his cause. But even you, George, must admit that he demonized Jews in large part for their capitalistic greed, come on, it is part of history. That is a leftist mantra, and it is going on right now in this country, the demonization of capitalism and the greed of corporations, surely you must read the news. Obama himself is engaged in that very thing, and surely you would never claim it is because of Obama's conservative or right wing politics. Such is clearly the mantra of left wing politics.
Quote:
He was an authoritarian who created a cult of his person, and who cynically used both socialistic and capitalist ideas to advance his causes. Like most tyrants, of both the left and the right, he was skilled at diverting public resentments toward "enemy groups" and using socialist sounding rhetoric to foster public hopes ... all to create uncritical belief and acceptance of his tyranny.
Sure, he created a cult of his person, which is typical of most leftists, they create a false hope of some kind of utopia, based upon some nebulous socialist vision based upon the unrealities of the world. And you are exactly correct in the fact that socialist sounding rhetoric is commonly used, but you seem to be defying your own logic, because clearly socialist rhetoric is leftist in nature, not conservative or right wing.
Quote:You persistently confuse the spectrum social and economic theories of the left and right with that of freedom and tyranny. They are in fact orthogonal. There are and have been capitalist and socialist tyrannies in this world as well as capitalist and socialist democracies that preserve the freedoms of their citizens. Examples abound: you just refuse to see them.
Absolutely not. What I have done is cut to the chase and get to the basic root of the debate here by identifying Hitler for what he was and identifying leftist traits and idealogies. Hitler was not freedom based, he was socialist based and he was Statist based, plain and simple. George, free market based capitalism cannot exist in a tyranny, it by definition must have freedom to operate. Socialism, as it progresses from mild to extreme, by definition must and will replace freedom with tyranny. I think you are the one refusing to see and admit to the realities of political beliefs and systems, George. I am not denying that mild forms of socialism can exist without tyranny, and in fact any government has a degree of socialism, because after all we must agree to a minimum set of norms for a society and for a government, but as the socialism tightens, it will by definition have to take away more and more freedom and replace it with tyranny, or with leftist philosophy.
Bottom line, if you look at the Nazi points or platform, the vast majority of it is leftist in nature, there is just no denial of that fact of history. The primary difference Hitler had with communists was that he wanted his socialism or leftism to apply only to Germany, his was a nationalistic form. He did not agree with the communist or Marxist philosophy of eventually engulfing the entire world with their world vision of utopian socialism or communism. But this fact does not distinguish Hitler's philosophy as being non-leftist, it only meant that his leftism was a nationalistic form of it.
