114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Nov, 2009 01:42 pm
@Abel Conklin,
Abel Conklin wrote:

You seem like a wise man, okie.
yes indeed, Okie is a very wise man,.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Nov, 2009 05:55 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
A lie. I've been supplying evidence to counter your idiotic allegations for years, evidence which you flat-out ignore. You never admit your opponents are right, even after you are shown to be completely and totally wrong. There stops being much point in engaging you over time.

That statement of yours, "I've been supplying evidence to counter your idiotic allegations for years, evidence which you flat-out ignore," is false! If I thought you actually believed it true, I would think you are delusional. However, I don't think you actually believe it!

You have actually rarely countered my allegations on thread topics over the years with your evidence. Instead you have frequently libeled me in response to my allegations ont thread topics--and you are continuing to libel me in response to my allegations about your responses to my allegations about thread topics.


djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Thu 19 Nov, 2009 05:56 pm
@ican711nm,
always look for the union libel
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Nov, 2009 06:53 pm
@ican711nm,
Somehow you managed to use the word 'rarely,' where you must have meant to use the word 'frequently.'

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Nov, 2009 08:52 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

I did not claim that jobs are a right guaranteed by the Constitution. But I think you will agree with me that the Constitution is not where our rights flow from; it only enumerates certain rights and restrictions upon the government. I personally believe that all people should have a right to affordable housing (it doesn't have to be NICE housing, just affordable) and health care.

Good grief, where do our rights flow from then. God, or is it Obama now? Holy mackerel, I have never read such utter and complete nonsense, cyclops. There is affordible housing now, if you can afford it, you can buy it or rent it, but if you think it is a right for somebody to have the money to buy it or rent it withoug having the money to buy it or pay the rent, I'm sorry but stealing is not a right. And last I checked, buying a house requires the seller to agree to a price and agree to sell it, and renting a house requires a renter to be willing to rent a place to somebody, last I checked, living someplace without paying the rentor for the place what the rentor asks in rent, that is the same as squatting and you will be kicked out or evicted.

Quote:
Quote:
I realize they are nice, they do contribute to our happiness and we are free to pursue them in a free society, but sorry, they are not rights as guaranteed by the constitution, you need to go back to school and study civics, with a teacher that knows what he or she is talking about.


It's not a question of being 'free to pursue these things.' If these things do not exist, people CANNOT pursue happiness. You can't live a stable and healthy life if you cannot afford health care and lodging, because various factors outside of your control have contributed to make them unaffordable. I believe it is part of our government's mission, to keep the costs of necessities of life such as this from spiraling out of control - which is exactly the situation we find ourselves in today.

Cycloptichorn

They do exist, dummy. But if you are looking for free housing, it might be tougher, and if you are looking for a doctor to provide services for nothing, that might be difficult as well. And it is not the government's mission to control costs of things, it is the government's reponsibility to stay out the peoples business, okay. Keep your nose out of my business, got that, cyclops. Keep your greedy hands to yourself. One of the things government could do that is its business is to reduce the taxes on people so that people would have more money to pay for what they need without the government meddling into their affairs.

Am I the only one here that is tired of the constant whining that life isn't fair, that 0nly the government can make it fair?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Nov, 2009 09:41 pm
@okie,
okie, Can you cite some examples of where sellers are forced to sell their home to unqualified buyers or property owners are required to rent to people who can't pay the rent?

You said,
Quote:
but if you think it is a right for somebody to have the money to buy it or rent it withoug having the money to buy it or pay the rent, I'm sorry but stealing is not a right.


What is all this rambling about?
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 06:32 pm
@okie,
IGNORE!
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 06:33 pm
@cicerone imposter,
He's a "wise" you know what!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 08:38 pm
@teenyboone,
The word "wise" in the same sentence to describe okie is an oxymoron. Mr. Green Drunk
teenyboone
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 08:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Chuckle! I want a drink of what you're having!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 09:57 pm
@teenyboone,
We can both use a heavy dose of whatever that numbs the mind. LOL
teenyboone
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 05:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
In the final analysis, I think the Presidents' initiatives are going to benefit
this country, take us out of the stagnation and mismanagement of the past 8 years and the economy will start to bounce back, once the stimulus that will create jobs is implemented.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 05:16 pm
@teenyboone,
Quote:
take us out of the stagnation and mismanagement of the past 8 years and the economy will start to bounce back, once the stimulus that will create jobs is implemented.


you are wildly overly optimistic, the mismanagement goes back to the 1980's with Reagan, and we have not even begun to dream about fixing what is wrong with America
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 05:23 pm
@teenyboone,
I'm hopeful too, but worry that too much has been spent to increase our deficit - some of it unjustified and sloppily spent. I think most financial pundits agree that the spending helped reduce the greater loss of jobs and stopped our economy from falling deeper into a worse recession. Some conservatives on these thread expect the Obama initiatives to turn around this world fiancial crisis on a dime that took Bush eight years to destroy. Most of us "reasonable" people know that they are are ignorant son of bitches who neither understand economics or reality. They kept claiming Obama was a "massiah" who walked on water, but there's no cure for stupid. Not all the of stim plan monies have been distributed or spend, and they want miracles to have happened yesterday. Most of these same yokels didn't say anything when Bush continued to increase our deficit and gave tax breaks to the wealthy. They neither understand fiscal management or common sense. They keep talking about wealth redistribution while our deficit continues to grow. Ignorance is their handicap.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 05:57 pm
David Brooks, the paragon of right-wingnut economic philosophy had this to say this past friday. I assume both sides of the wing-nut aisle can read and comprehend; but I doubt it.

Quote:
It’s amazing to go back and read what people were saying about Timothy Geithner in the spring. Many people said he looked terrified as the Treasury secretary, like Bambi in the headlights. The New Republic ran an essay called “The Geithner Disaster.” Portfolio magazine ran a brutal, zeitgeist-capturing profile that concluded by comparing Geithner to Robert Redford’s hollow man character in “The Candidate.”


The criticism of his plan to stabilize the financial system came from all directions. House Republicans called it radical. Many liberal economists thought the plan was the product of hapless, zombie thinking and argued that only full bank nationalization would end the crisis. The Wall Street Journal asked 49 economists to grade Geithner. They gave him an F.

Well, the evidence of the past eight months suggests that Geithner was mostly right and his critics were mostly wrong. The financial sector is in much better shape than it was then. TARP money is being repaid, and the debate now is what to do with the billions that were never needed. It now seems clear that nationalization would have been an unnecessary mistake " potentially expensive and dangerously disruptive.

The course of events has vindicated the administration’s handling of its first big challenge. Obama could have flinched when the torrent of criticism was at its peak. But the president’s support for Geithner never wavered. Geithner never lost confidence in his policy. Rahm Emanuel mobilized to improve the presentation of the policy. The political team worked hard to deflect criticism from Geithner onto themselves.

In retrospect, their performance during this trial was impressive.

Events also vindicate Geithner’s basic policy instincts. The criticism back then was that Geithner was neither bold nor visionary. He was too cautious, too much the insider and bureaucrat.

But this prudence was the key to his effectiveness. In interviews and testimony, Geithner uses the word “balance” a lot. He talks about finding the right balance point between competing priorities. He also talks like a historian who sees common tendencies in certain contexts, not a philosopher who seeks clear general principles that apply across contexts.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 06:00 pm
@dyslexia,
They can call it whatever they please out of their creative imaginations - to attempt to instill fear in the populace. What conservatives fail to do is explain the simple answer of the why and what are they talking about? They use general negative fear terms without providing the whys.

The sky is falling! Yeah, now, explain why and when.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 06:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The sky is falling! Yeah, now, explain why and when.


Why? The fear-up approach has worked very well on Americans for a long time, you should not expect either side to resist going for it, and both sides do. It is not based upon logic, it is based upon emotion which is driven by the subconscious and thus is not rational. Explanations get in the way of the effectiveness of the tool. Republicans are not that stupid to do that, no matter how little credit you give them for intelligence.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 06:54 pm
Glory Glory Hallelujah!

Obama will rescue the economy by spending more than Bush did, giving more tax revenue away than Bush did, and raising taxes instead of lowering them like Bush did!

Glory Glory Hallelujah!
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 07:59 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
take us out of the stagnation and mismanagement of the past 8 years and the economy will start to bounce back, once the stimulus that will create jobs is implemented.


you are wildly overly optimistic, the mismanagement goes back to the 1980's with Reagan, and we have not even begun to dream about fixing what is wrong with America

It goes back alot further than that, hawkeye. And your next post about fear, there are actually some things that should be feared. Intelligent people know what is to be feared and what is not to be feared, and which fears need to be acted upon, guarded against, and reacted to.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 08:02 pm
@teenyboone,
teenyboone wrote:
once the stimulus that will create jobs is implemented.

It has begun to be implemented, but it is stimulating nothing, nothing that is except more government jobs besides a few piddly temporary jobs for contractors working on government contracts. Haven't you seen some of the American recovery act signs along highways where they are laying down more asphalt onto seemingly good highways, while you drive along wondering why they did not instead choose to fix highways that were in far worse shape?
 

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