114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Nov, 2009 05:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye, Are you unable to accept the simple fact that my previous post lists all democrats who have taken money from the health care industry? Are you just dumb and blind, or just plain stupid?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Nov, 2009 06:07 pm
Quote:

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2009/11/09/divided-we-fall/
Divided We Fall

Posted by Erick Erickson (Profile)

Monday, November 9th at 5:00AM EST

50 Comments
The Democrats’ health care legislation passed the House of Representatives on Saturday by three votes. Under the Democrats’ plan, should you fail to obtain health insurance, you will go to jail for five years.

Leading up to the vote, pro-lifers engaged in a battle against each other over the “Stupak Amendment” offered by pro-life Democrat Bart Stupak. By Sunday, pro-lifers were suffering numerous recriminations from their allies. The logic is that had Stupak not passed, there would be enough votes to ensure the health care bill did not pass.

While I tend to agree with the argument, I think we miss a central point: Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats would have just done something else to get the legislation passed. By using pro-life issues, however, the Democrats were able to divide the GOP.

As the sun rises this Monday morning, let’s consider a few points.

1. Whether Stupak passed or not, the health care legislation would have passed on Saturday. In fact, most of the Republican leaders on the Hill encouraged a yes vote for the Stupak Amendment because (A) its passage would send a strong message that there is a pro-life majority in the House of Representatives and (B) its passage would not affect the final outcome. Regardless of how you view Stupak, we know now there is a pro-life majority in even this Democratic House of Representatives and Stupak very clearly will not affect the final outcome.

2. We know that this House legislation is dead on arrival in the United States Senate. As a result of its passage, a number of Blue Dog Democrats are now extremely vulnerable to defeat, as are a number of others. The act of voting for the legislation, and the anger generated by it receiving a majority vote, will doom a significant number of Democrats.

3. Because the Stupak Amendment passed, NARAL, Planned Parenthood, and a host of power left-wing interest groups that supported Obamacare, now are joined with a bunch of groups on the right in opposition to the measure.

4. Passing Obamacare in the manner it passed Saturday has created fresh, new divisions within the Democratic Party. While the media would prefer to look at Republican divisions, the Democrats are so full of gaping wounds now, they might bleed to death by November of 2010.

I think the Stupak Amendment was an instance of the pro-life community not seeing the forest for the trees and it should have been opposed. But I am willing to admit I could be wrong. What I do know is that the House Republican Leadership has been very, very good at combating the Democrats’ legislative agenda. That House GOP Leadership encouraged a vote for Stupak should not be second guessed lightly. It is a lot easier for me to Monday morning quarterback the vote than it was for these men and women on the front lines to make a decision.

At the end of the day we need to trust the people who said a yes vote was worth casting. Now is also not the time to throw the pro-lifers under the bus. They stand with us and, because of their tough stance, we are now ironically joined by pro-abortion groups standing shoulder to shoulder with pro-life groups in opposition to Obamacare.

Life is fully of ironies. Let’s savor this one and fight on.


0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Nov, 2009 07:28 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cyclo, you asked me: "Now what about that situation says to you that Republicans will take either house back this coming election cycle?"
(1) Current trends in the polls of probable voters as a consequence of what the Democrats have done or tried to do;
(2) Probable trends in the polls of probable voters as a consequence of what the Democrats will probably do or try to do;
(3) The fact that voter disgust with what the Bush administration and the Republican Congress had done caused the leadership of both Houses to switch from Republican to Democrat majoritites;
(4) The fact that the Obama administration and Democrat Congress are not only repeating and continuing the Bush Administration's and the Republican Congress's mistakes, they are amplifying and adding to them.

ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Nov, 2009 02:03 pm
Quote:
Go Directly to Jail. As you know, in the 1,990-page bill that squeaked (220-215) out of the House on Saturday there's plenty of bad policy to fill this letter (and several more). What you may not know is that failing to comply with the new requirements in this legislation could land you in jail - for up to five years!

The most appalling effect of the Affordable Health Care for America Act is the extent of control which the federal government would exercise over individual health care decisions. The legislation requires you to purchase health insurance, whether you need it or want it, and dictates the parameters of your policy. What's more, failure to purchase insurance would result in a slew of fines and, as this letter from the Joint Committee on Taxation makes clear, failure to pay the fines would result in criminal penalties including "a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years."

0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Nov, 2009 03:58 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Cyclo, you asked me: "Now what about that situation says to you that Republicans will take either house back this coming election cycle?"
(1) Current trends in the polls of probable voters as a consequence of what the Democrats have done or tried to do;
(2) Probable trends in the polls of probable voters as a consequence of what the Democrats will probably do or try to do;
(3) The fact that voter disgust with what the Bush administration and the Republican Congress had done caused the leadership of both Houses to switch from Republican to Democrat majoritites;
(4) The fact that the Obama administration and Democrat Congress are not only repeating and continuing the Bush Administration's and the Republican Congress's mistakes, they are amplifying and adding to them.


I wonder what makes you think that voters are ready to give the Republicans another shot at running things, after such a short time in the minority - and a time in which they have acted like boorish fools, instead of leaders.

I haven't seen any actual data which shows what you allege to be true, to be in fact true. I wonder if you could provide any? Or is this merely your opinion?

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2009 07:16 pm
October deficit sets all time record at 176.4 billion. Boy at that clip, we break 2 trillion in 12 months.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/12/federal-deficit-sets-october-record-billion/
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2009 07:26 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cyclo, Don't be so sure; latest polls show that 48% will vote for republicans and 44% for democrats.

Obama's in trouble, but can turn that around by communicating in simple language what he's trying to do with our economy and health care reform. There's too much waste going on in the stim program that gets media coverage, and he's failed to control those wastes.

He's fighting and uphill battle, and things don't look that good for him.

Bigger deficits and waste will not be tolerated by most voters. It's a very simple concept that seems to escape this administration.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Nov, 2009 08:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yep, Obama spent gobs of our kids money but did not take care of the two things that most Americans care the most about, jobs and the failing housing market...the failure to deal with foreclosures is continuing to rub out a great deal of American family wealth with no end in sight. The bankers doing a victory lap and paying themselves millions per year does not help, it makes Obama look like a chump.
teenyboone
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 02:29 am
@hawkeye10,
No disrespect, but in one year, this debacle left at Obama's feet on Day One of his job, is repeatedly screamed by the SAME Repugs that voted for the bank bailout in the Fall of 2008, that it's HIS bailout! Un-unh! Obama needs a back-hoe instead of a shovel, to clear SOME of the fall-out left by Bush & Co.

I'm sick and tired of hearing what Obama isn't doing. I didn't hear a peep from one conservative or right-winged member of the Republicans when Bush was doing his thing, because he said, "you're either wid us or a'gin us" and all you Repugs marched in lock step, so get a grip! It's going to take some time, before we can see the forests for the trees.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 08:34 am
@teenyboone,
teenyboone wrote:
I didn't hear a peep from one conservative or right-winged member of the Republicans when Bush was doing his thing,

In regard to spending, you must not have been listening very well. I heard many conservatives complaining, including me, and we said, why, why do this, why, we need alot more justification, and also I wanted to investigate Fannie and Freddie for a start and hold the people accountable, including guys like Franklin Raines that ran off with tens of millions or more, a reward for helping bankrupt the operation. Still to this day, nothing, I see nothing done in this regard, and we continue to repeat the same old mistakes and look the other way from blatant corruption in the government and its operations. Also, what about guys like Chris Dodd that got sweetheart deals, etc., nothing or virtually nothing was done, and he and others are still up there running the show.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 07:23 pm
@okie,
okay, okie, show us where you and some of the conservatives on a2k complaining about Bush's spending. It should be so easy to find, because so many were yelling from the rooftops and hardly anyone heard.

You can cut and paste from any of "your" posts complaining about Bush spending and increasing the deficit.

You have never provided proof for anything, and I doubt you'll be able to provide any proof now.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 08:04 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I'm certain I posted an objection to the ~ $600.00 rebate for all tax payers. I'm fairly sure I gave a negative opinion on the special depreciation rules following the WTC attacks.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 08:05 pm
@roger,
By the way, I have no intention of reviewing all my posts in the past eight years to prove it.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 09:03 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
CYCLOPTICHORN, HERE ARE SOME LINKS TO EVIDENCE THAT THE OBAMA DEMOCRATS ARE LOSING SUPPORT

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/november_2009/45_now_rate_obama_s_economic_performance_as_poor

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/generic_congressional_ballot

I bet you think Rasmussen's polls are not trustworthy! If so, find polls you trust that disagree with Rasmussen's polls.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Nov, 2009 04:12 pm
@roger,
roger, I trust what you say, but not okie. I may have objected to the $600 rebate too! I know my wife and I didn't get it. As for any depreciation rule changes based on any one event doesn't make much sense, but what does make sense when our government does anything? I'd be hard-pressed to find any good ones.
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2009 08:39 am
@okie,
I repeat, I didn't hear one conservative say that Bush was wrong for his spending. How did he get to send truckloads of cash to Iraq? All in hundred dollar bills! No one knows WHERE that money went! Years ago, I received photos showing the cash in a tractor trailer over there, then received photos of gold bullion being stacked that was taken from the Iraqui banks. "Where do they go", to quote Sarah Palin, on being able to see Russians from her house!

If you can answer ONE of these two items, You can give Bush and Cheney, 1 free "get out of jail cards"!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2009 10:31 am
@teenyboone,
teeny, That ended up to be billions of dollars, and I do not remember any conservative challenging that loss. I'm still waiting for okie to prove he was against Bush's wastes and increasing deficit.

teenyboone
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2009 10:53 am
@cicerone imposter,
CI,
I honestly didn't want to revisit what Bush did, because the money spent would have insured every American with health care, educated millions of college age children with no resources, housed millions of Americans in affordable housing if that myth existed, as it doesn't here in NJ, that just elected a Repug appointed by Bush, then used his office to "entrap" other public officials. He went after Democrats, but bagged more Republicans than you and I can count!

Chris Christie's election won't affect me, directly, because I have a private pension and social security that I paid into over 40 years! Hear that, Repugs out there? 2 Black people, never on the governments dole! We WORKED for it!

Mark my word, Chris Christie is a nightmare waiting to happen, as far as the NJEA and CWA, the LAST of the powerful unions that are run in NJ. The Teachers and Communications Workers, Christie is chomping at the bit to lay off! I can leave NJ and emigrate to a "banana republic" and live out my last years like a queen! I feel for anyone that voted for him, because he's going to kick their a$$es, too!
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2009 06:37 pm
@teenyboone,
teenyboone wrote:

Mark my word, Chris Christie is a nightmare waiting to happen

Obama is a nightmare happening right now. Over 10% unemployment and apparently still going up, skyrocketing deficits never ever witnessed before in this country, and a war in Afghanistan that he totally has no clue what to do, and now holding trials in New York, exactly what the terrorists ordered to further their agenda. Pathetic and corrupt bunch in Washington, teeny, the guy that oversees the IRS, where you send your money and where I send mine, he was a tax cheat, only one of several. We also have Chairman Mao admirers and other Marxists in the administration, also people that want to limit free speech, they can't wait to take over your health and mine. Yet you apparently still think Obama walks on water?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2009 06:41 pm
@teenyboone,
"What Bush did" is obvious to most who live in the real world. It takes great imagination to believe Bush was a great president; one who doesn't even speak proper English. Then the conservatives comes up with joe the plumber and Palin to lead their way to new lows in our politics. Somewhere along the line, it's gonna look real good in China (still a communist country) and India (one of the poorest in the world) for Americans when conservatives believe they have any intelligence leading their party in the US.
0 Replies
 
 

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