114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2009 06:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
All your claims are nothing but misinformation.

You shouldn't be spreading lies and innuendos on these threads.

The only "blundering fool" around here is you!

Just shows you know nothing about what caused the financial crisis.

Go peddle your misinformation on Facebook.

These stupid irrational accusations of yours reveal you to be unwilling or incapable of making rational rebuttals to posts with which you disagree.

The subject of this thread is "Where is the US economy headed." The subject of this thread is not me.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2009 06:04 pm
@ican711nm,
All the rebuttals have already been made many times. You keep coming back with the same crap that's been rebutted so many times, it's tiresome!~ Get lost.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2009 08:23 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:
The subject of this thread is "Where is the US economy headed." The subject of this thread is not me.

Correct. The issue is a failed economic policy by an administration that does not seem to understand that it is the private sector instead of government that will turn this lousy economic trend around. We have an administration that not only does not understand this, but they have built an adversarial attitude toward business and toward us the American people and our liberty.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2009 08:26 pm
@okie,
You and ican understand nothing about capitalism. Government has the duty to make laws that will protect consumers and investors. Without it, no economy can survive.

Without the government(s) intervention in most developed countries during this financial crisis, the economies of the world would have collapsed.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 04:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Imposter, your inability to comprehend rational argument is insufficient evidence to support your claims.

The powers delegated to the federal government by the Constitution of the USA do not explicitly or implicitly include the power to protect consumers and investors from financial crises.

Federal government interventions in the USA's economy are the primary causes of the present financial crises. Had the feds not imposed and subsized private loans to those who were not able to make required payments on those loans, this current financial crises would not have occurred. The Democrat majority Congress could have heeded--but did not heed--Bush 43's multiple pleas to rectify this situation, when it became obvious in 2008 the situation needed rectification. It legislated and Bush II signed TARP, which was the opposite of what should have been done: stop imposing and subsidizing those loans by private lenders, and allow the private lenders to foreclose on those loans.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 05:06 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
Federal government interventions in the USA's economy are the primary causes of the present financial crises.


100% wrong.

Quote:

Had the feds not imposed and subsized private loans to those who were not able to make required payments on those loans, this current financial crises would not have occurred.


Once again, 100% wrong. You have no clue what you are talking about and have repeatedly displayed the fact that you don't understand the financial crisis or what lead up to it at all.
Quote:

The Democrat majority Congress could have heeded--but did not heed--Bush 43's multiple pleas to rectify this situation, when it became obvious in 2008 the situation needed rectification.


That wouldn't have fixed anything, changing things in 2008. Once again, you show zero understanding of the financial crisis at all.

Quote:
It legislated and Bush II signed TARP, which was the opposite of what should have been done: stop imposing and subsidizing those loans by private lenders, and allow the private lenders to foreclose on those loans.


This is laughably, laughably stupid. Just plain dumb. The financial crisis had nothing to do with lenders loans being subsidized OR with foreclosing on loans.

I think you must be having a go at us, Ican, trying to be ironic or something. I mean, you couldn't be more incorrect on these issues if you tried.

Cycloptichorn
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 05:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Without the government(s) intervention in most developed countries during this financial crisis, the economies of the world would have collapsed.


I dont see how this would have been entirely bad.
It would have meant a restructuring of economies so that they actually worked the way they should, instead of the hodge podge of economic models we have now.

That would IMHO be a good thing.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 05:13 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
Without the government(s) intervention in most developed countries during this financial crisis, the economies of the world would have collapsed.


I dont see how this would have been entirely bad.
It would have meant a restructuring of economies so that they actually worked the way they should, instead of the hodge podge of economic models we have now.

That would IMHO be a good thing.


Sure, all those millions who would have been unemployed and maybe starved to death due to massive global financial meltdown - it would have been awesome for them.

Even more, what makes you think the new systems that arise would be 'what they should' be? There doesn't seem to be any data to back that projection up. Likely the exact opposite would have happened.

Cycloptichorn
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 05:22 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Sure, all those millions who would have been unemployed and maybe starved to death due to massive global financial meltdown - it would have been awesome for them.


I think you are painting a doomsday scenario of what would have happened.

Would there have been some hardship?
Yes, there would have.

BUT, I think you would have seen smaller economic models pop up, like the barter system we use here.
There is actually very little cash business conducted here in Morganfield.
Most people use the "barter system".
That means that if I need some beef and you have it, I offer to put up a new shed for you in return.

I think that would have become more prevalent if there was a worldwide economic collapse.

Yes, it would have hurt international trade, but if you think that there would have been
Quote:
Sure, all those millions who would have been unemployed and maybe starved to death due to massive global financial meltdown

I think you are seriously underestimating humans and there ingenuity.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 05:22 pm
@mysteryman,
Agreed MM, it wouldn't have been nearly as bad as some would like you to think.

You'll have to wait a few years before you see true economic collapse; CI posted an insightful article over in another thread. Here it is. http://able2know.org/topic/71145-1452#post-3795935
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 05:28 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:

I think you are painting a doomsday scenario of what would have happened.


What, you're a global economist now, who can give accurate pictures of what would happen when trillions of dollars of equity vanished practically overnight? You know what the effects of interrupted trade and food shipments to many countries would have been?

Yeah; not so much. You either, Maporsche. It's really easy to sit here and say that 'things wouldn't have been so bad.' Actual economists disagree with you on this one.

Quote:


BUT, I think you would have seen smaller economic models pop up, like the barter system we use here.
There is actually very little cash business conducted here in Morganfield.
Most people use the "barter system".
That means that if I need some beef and you have it, I offer to put up a new shed for you in return.

I think that would have become more prevalent if there was a worldwide economic collapse.


I think the fact that you see the 'barter system' as a preferable alternative to modern international finance is indicative of a lack of understanding on your part as to what you are talking about.

Quote:

I think you are seriously underestimating humans and there ingenuity.


No, I'm not, either. We ingeniously came up with an international financial system which allowed people in dozens of countries to grow past the level where they could support themselves on the resources available to their citizens. You are the one claiming that humanity could do without our most successful financial innovation, not me...

Cycloptichorn
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 05:32 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
You are the one claiming that humanity could do without our most successful financial innovation, not me...


So successful that the world economy is or was near collapse?

And I am as much an expert as you are.
I was offering an opinion about what I think would have happened, because I seem to have more faith in people then you do.

And now we have a prominent dem actually admitting that the dems are "trying on every front to increase the role of government."
I thought the dems wanted to do the exact opposite?

http://newsbusters.org/node/33800/print
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 05:45 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
You are the one claiming that humanity could do without our most successful financial innovation, not me...


So successful that the world economy is or was near collapse?

And now we have a prominent dem actually admitting that the dems are "trying on every front to increase the role of government."
I thought the dems wanted to do the exact opposite?

http://newsbusters.org/node/33800/print


Dems have claimed that they aren't looking to increase the role of Government? I think you are confusing them with someone else. And I applaud them doing that, because we have a need for greater regulation of industry.

Re: the world financial system, yes. It has been immensely successful, and part of the reason that it is so successful is the fact that world governments - including and especially our own - implicitly back it. The 'free market,' as you bunch like to call it, exists only by the grace of those who fund and defend it, which is in this case the US people through the US government.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 05:45 pm
@mysteryman,
It depends on what and how government wants to increase their involvement. I'd like to see the "list" before I make any up any conclusions as to their necessity and/or effectiveness.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 06:08 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
The 'free market,' as you bunch like to call it, exists only by the grace of those who fund and defend it, which is in this case the US people through the US government.


Then please explain how China, which is NOT a complete "free market" system, is poised to become the worlds number 1 economy?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 06:36 pm
@mysteryman,
It's because they're moving away from communism to a capitalistic society. Is that news to you? Even the US now has investments in China.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 06:41 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
Then please explain how China, which is NOT a complete "free market" system, is poised to become the worlds number 1 economy?

Please explain how the USA, which is NOT a complete "free market" system is poised to become the worlds number 2 economy?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 05:14 am
US investments in China (2006):

Quote:

Published April 2006
Summary

* Utilized foreign direct investment (FDI) dropped by 0.5 percent in 2005, but increased by 6.4 percent in the first quarter of 2006 to $14.2 billion.
* The United States continues to be China's fifth-largest source of FDI behind Hong Kong, the Virgin Islands, Japan, and South Korea.
* Issues likely to affect foreign investment in 2006 include the new labor contract law, the discontinuation of foreign-invested enterprise representative offices, the antimonopoly law, and the implementation of distribution rights.
* The PRC Ministry of Commerce announced that it will no longer publish contracted FDI values, a figure used by many analysts as an indicator of future investment.

0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 09:18 am
Housing sales down. Again, is this merely the market returning to reality, after the cash for clunker parallel in the real estate market expires, the first time home owner tax credit? If the government is going to institute tax policy, it should be more consistent and longer term so that people know what the ground rules are. We should not be making every financial decision based upon what the goofy government policy is each day vs yesterday. And we should be addressing the foundational problems, not treating the symptoms.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/28/new-home-sales-drop-percent/

"WASHINGTON -- Sales of new homes dropped unexpectedly last month as the effects of a soon-to-expire tax credit for first-time owners started to wane.

The Commerce Department said sales fell 3.6 percent to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 402,000 from a downwardly revised 417,000 in August. Economists surveyed by Thomson Reuters had expected a pace of 440,000.

...."

maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 09:21 am
@okie,
I didn't read your article, but in other articles I've read they've also been referencing the extra 3.5 million homes that the banks are holding onto that are empty from foreclosures that haven't been listed on the market. This is creating artificial demand, and still sales are declining. If these 3.5 million homes were listed; **** would tank.
0 Replies
 
 

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