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Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2009 04:22 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

They just gave out on the BBC News (second item) that the US national debt stands at $9 trillion. And rising.

I make that about $30,000 each and when you consider how many kids there are and OAPs and sick and unemployed and also that the demand side is getting bigger it is hard not to feel sorry for the supply siders.

The rising national debt is another thing that Bush would be vilified for if he were president now.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Aug, 2009 11:40 am
I'm not sure why all of you are arguing about social security benefits; all presidents just follow the existing laws until they are changed by congress.

Next year's social security benefit is not being reduced; the reduction happens because there will be a Medicare Part B increase.

No COLA is included in 2010, because we are not experiencing or projecting an inflation.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Aug, 2009 11:53 am
@cicerone imposter,
And Medicare B only increases for new enrollees and those above a certain income level. I vaguely recall that the cutoff point is $350,000, though I could be off on that number. Not to suggest there are any doctors out there accepting new Medicare patients, you understand. Just saying. . . .
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Aug, 2009 03:04 pm
@roger,
roger, That's not my understanding of our 2010 social security benefit; no COLA with an increase in Medicare Part B premium with a net loss of a few dollars in our social security check.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Aug, 2009 07:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Something very strange is going on in our economy; durable goods orders are increasing, home sales seems to be picking up, and consumer confidence seems to be improving as more thousands of people continue to lose their jobs.

It's really hard trying to figure out this economy's trend, because the job loss picture just will not go away. Even more companies are showing improvement in their bottom line, and many of the big-wigs of companies are talking about adding workers in the last quarter of this year.

With all the good news comes the reports that more banks are ready for insolvency - all while the big banks are showing enough profit to pay back the TARP money, and their stock prices continue to rise.

With all these mixed messages, what do you think holds for our economic future for the short term and long term?

What should we do with our stocks and bonds?
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Aug, 2009 08:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
My understanding comes from one of those AARP bulletins from about two months ago. I wish I had saved it, but I'm sure it said there could be no increase when there was no COLA adjustment. Could have been indulging in wishful reading, but I don't think so.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Aug, 2009 08:53 pm
@roger,
Yes, there will be no COLA adjustment, but the Medicare PartB deduction will be a bit higher next year, so the net cash benefit will be less than this year.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Aug, 2009 05:29 am
You could all try reading this carefully in relation to the $9 trillion national debt. It's from Gibbon.

Quote:
Arts of luxury
Agriculture is the foundation of manufactures, since the productions of nature are the materials of art. Under the Roman empire, the labour of an industrious and ingenious people was variously, but incessantly employed, in the service of the rich. In their dress, their table, their houses, and their furniture, the favourites of fortune united every refinement of conveniency, of elegance, and of splendour, whatever could soothe their pride or gratify their sensuality. Such refinements, under the odious name of luxury, have been severely arraigned by the moralists of every age; and it might perhaps be more conducive to the virtue, as well as happiness, of mankind, if all possessed the necessities, and none of the superfluities, of life. But in the present imperfect condition of society, luxury, though it may proceed from vice or folly, seems to be the only means that can correct the unequal distribution of property. The diligent mechanic, and the skilful artist, who have obtained no share in the division of the earth, receive a voluntary tax from the possessors of land; and the latter are prompted, by a sense of interest, to improve those estates, with whose produce they may purchase additional pleasures. This operation, the particular effects of which are felt in every society, acted with much more diffusive energy in the Roman world. The provinces would soon have been exhausted of their wealth, if the manufactures and commerce of luxury had not insensibly restored to the industrious subjects the sums which were exacted from them by the arms and authority of Rome. As long as the circulation was confined within the bounds of the empire, it impressed the political machine with a new degree of activity, and its consequences, sometimes beneficial, could never become pernicious.


Which should please okie in view of what we know can become pernicious.

Quote:
Foreign trade
But it is no easy task to confine luxury within the limits of an empire. The most remote countries of the ancient world were ransacked to supply the pomp and delicacy of Rome. The forests of Scythia afforded some valuable furs. Amber was brought over land from the shores of the Baltic to the Danube; and the barbarians were astonished at the price which they received in exchange for so useless a commodity. There was a considerable demand for Babylonian carpets and other manufactures of the East; but the most important and unpopular branch of foreign trade was carried on with Arabia and India. Every year, about the time of the summer solstice, a fleet of a hundred and twenty vessels sailed from Myoshormos, a port of Egypt, on the Red Sea. By the periodical assistance of the Monsoons, they traversed the ocean in about forty days. The coast of Malabar, or the island of Ceylon, was the usual term of their navigation, and it was in those markets that the merchants from the more remote countries of Asia expected their arrival. The return of the fleet of Egypt was fixed to the months of December or January; and as soon as their rich cargo had been transported on the backs of camels, from the Red Sea to the Nile, and had descended that river as far as Alexandria, it was poured, without delay, into the capital of the empire. The objects of oriental traffic were splendid and trifling; silk, a pound of which was esteemed not inferior in value to a pound of gold; precious stones, among which the pearl claimed the first rank after the diamond; and a variety of aromatics, that were consumed in religious worship and the pomp of funerals. The labour and risk of the voyage was rewarded with almost incredible profit; but the profit was made upon Roman subjects, and a few individuals were enriched at the expense of the Public. As the natives of Arabia and India were Gold and silver contented with the productions and manufactures of their own country, silver, on the side of the Romans, was the principal, if not the only instrument of commerce. It was a complaint worthy of the gravity of the senate, that in the purchase of female ornaments, the wealth of the state was irrevocably given away to foreign and hostile nations. The annual loss is computed, by a writer of an inquisitive but censorious temper, at upwards of eight hundred thousand pounds sterling. Such was the style of discontent, brooding over the dark prospect of approaching poverty. And yet, if we compare the proportion between gold and silver, as it stood in the time of Pliny, and as it was fixed in the reign of Constantine, we shall discover within that period a very considerable increase. There is not the least reason to suppose that gold was become more scarce; it is therefore evident that silver was grown more common; that whatever might be the amount of the Indian and Arabian exports, they were far from exhausting the wealth of the Roman world; and that the produce of the mines abundantly supplied the demands of commerce.


Notice there that the "produce of the mines" (male slave work) is equated with female ornaments, silk and other effeminate luxuries derived from outside.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Aug, 2009 10:56 am
@spendius,
spendi, Please translate for us what your message is supposed to be from your two cut and paste.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Aug, 2009 11:20 am
@cicerone imposter,
They were just something for you to ponder upon ci.

Sumptuary Laws are difficult to pass and enact when they apply to the luxury of a fairly small number of persons and impossible when they apply to a majority or even a large minority which has control of media and law.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Aug, 2009 12:06 pm
Quote:
Some analysts believe another 100 to 300 banks could fail before the crisis runs its course, largely because of souring loans for commercial real estate. The number of institutions on the FDIC's internal "problem list" " those rated by examiners as having very low capital cushions against risk and other deficiencies " jumped to 416 at the end of June from 305 in the first quarter, the agency reported Thursday.

Q: What's behind this?

A: Banks around the country have run into trouble on their loans for construction and development, the fastest-growing category of troubled loans for U.S. banks, especially in overbuilt areas. Many companies have shut down in the recession, vacating shopping malls and office buildings financed by the loans.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090829/ap_on_bi_ge/us_meltdown101_bank_failures

The Commercial loan default rate is now a huge problem, just as I and I think it was RJB predicted would come to pass.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Aug, 2009 01:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
That's been reported in the media for several months now, but this kind of information is slow to circulate, because most people don't care.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Aug, 2009 01:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
"Most people" don't run the country.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Aug, 2009 01:12 pm
@spendius,
In the post earlier which you asked for guidance on it said-

Quote:
It was a complaint worthy of the gravity of the senate, that in the purchase of female ornaments, the wealth of the state was irrevocably given away to foreign and hostile nations.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Aug, 2009 01:15 pm
@spendius,
"Ornament" is that which adorns, embellishes and decorates an object.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Aug, 2009 01:24 pm
@spendius,
Thank you. I wonder if I've got enough years left to read more of this.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Aug, 2009 03:16 pm
@roger,
Aw gee rog. That's only one page of a very famous book which every educated person has read with attention. And it's a long book too.

But it's the polite version. Suitable for sensitive souls. Gibbon was a bit of a fop they say.

But nobody is asking you to read anything.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Aug, 2009 06:25 pm
The Consumer Confidence Index (CCI) rose by a bit in July, which is surprising considering that job losses also increased. The CCI measures "sentiment" about the future, rather than money spent.
Consumer Spending also rose a smidgen, driven perhaps by the Cash for Clunkers thing.
I have mentioned before that my business is one of a 100+ surveyed each month by the Fed Reserve of Richmond re activity in our region. Pretty much a non-scientific survey, statistically. But the "flash" results have not been too far off the mark.
Retail sales, according to the respondents, took a dive in August. 68% of us reported a decline vs 33% reporting an increase. 68-33= 35. That -35 index number is double what it was a month or so ago and is well above the -23 3-month average.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Aug, 2009 06:38 pm
On another note, the Japanese election is Sunday. It appears that the ruling party for the last 50 years will lose. Perhaps lose big. Some of that may be due to voters getting weary of the notion that seats in the legislature tended to get passed down from father to son.
But the economy there is in rough shape. 5.9% unemployment. In that society that is unheard of. It is a record in the post-war economy. Exports dropping and a domestic economy experiencing or expecting to experience disinflation. Why buy stuff if it will be cheaper next month.
The election in Japan is pretty important. Watch what happens there.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Aug, 2009 06:59 pm
@realjohnboy,
rjb, I read the same thing about the consumer confidence increase, but I'm not sure how to interpret that when more people are not spending to help our economy.

I've been trying to figure out how to read this recession, because our unemployment is still below 10%, and that means we still have 90% still working. While in Chicago this past week, all the public venues were busy. Even the restaurant where we had dinner one evening, the Giordano's World Famous Pizza, had a two hour wait. The waiting time was shorter when there wasn't a recession. The architectural river boat tour we took one afternoon seemed always packed with people, and the Navy Pier amusement park was packed with people when we went there on the weekend. But generally speaking, we can continue to anticipate further decline in retail sales, because we're finding more discounts on every day necessities, and most of the department stores are always having sales now.

Electronics seems to be making somewhat of a comeback, and Apple just got a deal to sell their iPhones in China. Buy Apple stock.

Japan used to be the second largest economy in the world, but it's now sitting in fifth place. I used to think California was the fifth largest economy in the world, so we must now be down to seventh or eighth.

A whole lotsa mixed messages out there, and I'm pondering what I should do with our investments. We have great returns so far this year, but I'm not sure this bull market can be sustained with more workers losing their jobs. The funny think is that people who were holding back on buying into the market is now doing so, and I'm thinking I should remove some of the profit from our equity funds and transfer them into bond funds.

You know how that saying goes; buy low and sell high. I think I'm going to transfer some of my profit on Monday. I believe incremental steps is the best strategy for now.


 

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