Where is the US economy headed?

Okied- This is from the Carter years-Anogther bozo like Obama who thought he could save the country by putting pressure on businesses. Cicerone Imposter is playing around with credit card rates which mean almost nothing when compared to INFLATION AND UNEMPLOYMENT RATES. There is something called the Misery Index which I am sure that Cyclops either hasn't seen or doesn't want to see-Note below:


[edit] U.S. misery index

[edit] Misery index - era by U.S president
Index = Unemployment rate + Inflation rate Rank President Time Period Index Average Low High
5 Harry Truman 1948"1952 7.87 Dec 1952 = 3.45 Jan 1948 = 13.63
1 Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953"1960 6.26 Jul 1953 = 2.97 Apr 1958 = 10.98
3 John F. Kennedy 1961"1962 7.27 Jul 1962 = 6.40 Jul 1961 = 8.38
2 Lyndon B. Johnson 1963"1968 6.78 Nov 1965 = 5.70 Jul 1968 = 8.19
7 Richard Nixon 1969"1973 9.98 Jan 1968 = 7.80 Dec 1973 = 13.61
10 Gerald Ford 1974"1976 15.93 Dec 1976 = 12.66 Jan 1975 = 19.90
11 Jimmy Carter 1977"1980 16.27 Apr 1978 = 12.60 Jun 1980 = 21.98
9 Ronald Reagan 1981"1988 12.19 Dec 1986 = 7.70 Sep 1981 = 19.33
8 George H. W. Bush 1989"1992 10.68 Sep 1989 = 9.64 Nov 1990 = 12.47
4 Bill Clinton 1993"2000 7.80 Apr 1998 = 5.74 Jan 1993 = 10.56
6 George W. Bush 2001 - 2008 8.10 Oct 2006 = 5.71 Aug 2008 = 11.47


The highest was CARTER--the low of Carter was 12.60 and the high was an amazing 21.98.

In twoyears, we will have a combined Inflation-Unemployment Inflation Rate which will be HIGHER THAN CARTER'S PEAK.

Cicerone, foxfyre did say "in a normal market".

But, we aren't in a normal market. We are in an emotional market.

And, because businesses are run by people with emotions no matter how "well run, competent" they are, in times of great negative emotion they will hoard whatever cash they can hold on to...just like the bankers are doing.

Now, the key for a successful business is timing when to release the fear and do the 4 things foxyre mentioned before your competitors.

Which brings us to the bailout...no dollar amount, no matter how big, can overcome emotion...hence, it is a complete waste of money.

The ever moronic Cicerone Imposter wrote:

okie, It's not tax cuts that'll save any business; that's why it's called a business; they must have demand (people with money). Without demand, they go broke with or without tax cuts.
*************************************************************
Cicerone Imposter thinks that Businesses are some mysterious abstraction. They are not. Ninety percent of the businesses in the USA are small businesses who employ several or a score or more of workers.

If those businesses are prospering, the hire, promote and RAISE SALARIES.
There is where the DEMAND comes from. If NO businesses are open except government agencies,THERE IS VERY LITTLE DEMAND.

It is clear that CiceroneImposgter never read Dr> Thomas Sowell's excellentbook on Economics,Okie!

one company doing better by the day is http://www.overstock.com/? .
they just love recessions , depressions and any other economic downturn .

they are feasting on the carcasses .
btw they even have a canadien website .
bought a good-sized RCA 5 disk / radio combo at a canadian discounter just two month ago - $99.95 seemed like a good price - it's now listed at $69.95 - discounting the discount price ?
hbg

I agree with most of what you say, but in ANY market a competently run business will seek to improve its bottom line and, short of direct payments that are nothing more than transfer of wealth rather than creation of wealth, whatever government does that encourages an increase in the bottom line is truly stimulus for the economy and benefits everybody.

Okie- Cyclops wrote--

maybe the price is affected down the line. You assume that businesses automatically lower prices when their prices are lowered. They do not.

Okiep- Cyclops is a left winger who,I am sure would press for radical income redistribution. He is also very jealous of people whose salaries make him look like a peasant. He won't answer my challenge but I challenge him to back up his insane sentence above.You see,Okie,Cyclops never gives evidence. He thinks that all he has to do is to write his OPINION, but he is wrong. The large majority of businesses are INDEED LOWERING PRICES ( INFLATION ADJUSTED OF COURSE.

Okie- Don't take his nonsense. Defy him to give evidence!

If you had a little patience, you could have bought that for a "real" bargain. LOL

Even in a "normal market," many businesses fail.

I should amend my previous post to say that anything the government does that encourages business to GROW or EXPAND to increase their bottom line is a true stimulus to the economy and benefits everybody. Whatever the government does that encourages business to SHRINK in order to increase or preserve its bottom line adds to the recession. Raising taxes during time of recession is one of those things government can do to ensure that a recession will be deeper and longer than it otherwise would be. Historically, lowering taxes during times of recession has proved to be beneficial as a stimulus.

And exactly which part of the stimulus/recovery plan are looking at increasing taxes during this financial crisis?

Don't expect miracles, genoves. ci and I go back a ways. He is a nice guy, I think, just an aging curmudgeon clinging to liberal ideas, even though he is surrounded by somewhat conservatives in his own family. To this day, even though his family suffered from FDR rounding up Japanese Americans for no reason, he chooses to call Bush a criminal for tapping a few phone calls from suspected terrorists, meanwhile he remains an FDR Democrat. Go figure, its a total mystery to me. And every once in a while, he says something intelligent. Then he reverts back to silly liberalism and Bush hating platitudes.

I would respect Cicerone Imposter much more if he gave some evidence for many of his weird statements. He has never learned that most of his unadorned statements will not and should not even be considered without documentation behind them

Again--When FDR started to pour money into the NRA, WPA, AAA, he also laid a tax on the monied class called the Excess Profits Tax. THAT WAS A CLASSIC CASE OF ENCOURAGING BUSINESSES TO SINK since Private Sector Money hid and the only real expenditure was government expenditure on make work jobs that would never last as long as real jobs.


This, it appears is what Obama is doing. We will see how many seats the Democrats lose in the 2010 elections when the economy has not recovered robustly.

From AP:

Lawmakers say all issues settled in stimulus bill
By DAVID ESPO and JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, Associated Press Writers David Espo And Julie Hirschfeld Davis, Associated Press Writers 18 mins ago

WASHINGTON " Reluctant to call it quits, key lawmakers bargained into overtime Thursday on the $790 billion economic stimulus legislation before reaching final agreement more than 24 hours after first announcing a deal. Lingering controversy over school-modernization money and a scaled-back tax break for businesses forced a delay in final votes on the legislation.

But by nightfall, with Democratic leaders eager for final passage by the weekend, all issues were reported settled. House leaders announced a vote for Friday, with the Senate to follow later in the day or over the weekend.

Republicans, lined up to vote against the bill, piled on the scorn. "This is not the smart approach," said Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader. "The taxpayers of today and tomorrow will be left to clean up the mess."

President Barack Obama delivered what has become a daily call for congressional action, this time from the industrial heartland. With approval of the bill, he said in Peoria, Ill., companies "may be able to start growing again. Rather than cutting jobs, they may be able to create them again."

He spoke at Caterpillar Inc., the heavy machinery giant that has announced 22,000 layoffs. The president has said in recent days the company has promised to rescind some of them once the stimulus passes, but Chief Executive Jim Owens said there probably would be more layoffs before that can occur.

At the Capitol and in an atmosphere of uncertainty, provisions were coming to light that had not been included in the original bills that passed the House or Senate " or that differed markedly from earlier versions, or that appeared to brush up against claims of the bill's supporters that no pet projects known as "earmarks" were included.

The ever moronic Cicerone Imposter wrote:

okie, It's not tax cuts that'll save any business; that's why it's called a business; they must have demand (people with money). Without demand, they go broke with or without tax cuts.
*************************************************************
Cicerone Imposter thinks that Businesses are some mysterious abstraction. They are not. Ninety percent of the businesses in the USA are small businesses who employ several or a score or more of workers.

If those businesses are prospering, the hire, promote and RAISE SALARIES.
There is where the DEMAND comes from. If NO businesses are open except government agencies,THERE IS VERY LITTLE DEMAND.

Tax cuts would help, it isn't the total solution, but it would help. Anyone that believes otherwise is an idiot, genoves.

This is something anybody should know by the time they graduated from grade school.

okie, You are again either playing dumb or are just plain ignorant. The current stimulus plan has tax cuts included in it.

There are tax cuts included in the stim bill; you are aware of that, right? Hundreds of billions of dollars of them.

Cycloptichorn

Tax cuts during this economic crisis is a good idea. On the flip side, our government must also take some action to help those losing their jobs so they become tax payers again. It's not an easy task by any means, but that's what our government must try to do - to help all Americans - not just people who still have their jobs. Our country is losing more than 100,000 jobs every week; we cannot sustain that amount of job loss and still have a viable economy.

LOL, but it wasn't a good idea when Bush did it? By the way, I never said there were no tax cuts in this bill. I was responding to ci's claim that tax cuts would not save any business, which is nonsense, again, of course, coming from you, ci.

And to be clear, some of the "tax cuts" are not really tax cuts, because the people getting them don't pay taxes. They are instead a giveaway of more money, using the tax stystem. But Bush did this too, but when he did it, the libs all claimed Bush was only giving tax breaks to the rich, which was of course a lie.

So extending unemployment benefits and all that kind of stuff sounds wonderful and compassionate, but is not going to create jobs or even encourage some people to even look for jobs.