112
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2008 11:33 am
@hamburger,
You can't suck money out of the economy. You can only re-locate it.

The paper you picked up will probably be owned in places where it's relocated to and the "good" is to reassure you that that is as it should be in the Darwinian grand plan.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2008 11:50 am
@spendius,
wrong. Just as wealth can be grown (Our current economy DEMANDS that wealth be grown over the medium and long term) it can be killed. wealth can vanish without a trace.
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2008 11:58 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Yeah, alot of it goes to black holes. Some of it for management and advertisement of the lottery to administer it, print tickets, on and on. which is a waste of resources that could be directed toward more fruitful endeavors. Secondly, alot of the people buying tickets are those that can least afford it, thus a tax on the poor. Small winners reinvest in more tickets, thus perpetuating more losses. Big winners are few and far between, and don't help many people. Then whats left over is invested into sometimes questionable or unnecessary government programs. And if the programs are truly that great, such as schools, a real tax should be instituted wherein the people that can best afford the tax would pay most of it. Yes lotteries are government sanctioned gambling, promoting the idea that you can get something for nothing, which is the last thing that government should be doing.

Bottom line, lotteries do not promote efficient use of resources. Money is directed into wasteful and useless endeavors.


Wtf are you talking about, Okie?

http://www.txlottery.org/export/sites/default/Images/Where-the-Money-Goes_WEB.jpg

The TX state lottery has raised over 15 billion dollars - AFTER paying out prizes - in the last 16 years, and more then 10 billion of that has gone to TX schools. And it's a purely voluntary act; nobody is ever forced to play. So the 'efficient use of resources' line is ridiculous. The money does not disappear into a 'black hole,' unless that's what you consider schools to be, which is unsurprising.

Cycloptichorn
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2008 12:02 pm
@hawkeye10,
I said "money" Hawk. Not wealth.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2008 12:03 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
sooooo, you lose on average 39% of every dollar/euro played. The odds are much better on Vegas slots, if the government is going to conduct a gambling enterprise shouldn't they at least be as fair to the player as Vegas?? Just asking.
Quote:
A machine with a 98% payback give the house a 2% edge, which is comparable with craps and blackjack. However, there are very few machines in a casino that have this high of a payback percentage. The worst machines can be as low as 75% (giving the house a whopping 25% advantage).

http://www.goingtovegas.com/kpv-slot.htm
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2008 12:05 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Where did your visual aid begin its journey Cyclo?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2008 11:08 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
So about a fourth of the money gets used for something supposedly useful? Your graph just illustrated my point perfectly. It goes into black holes, and about a fourth comes back out. Thats a great investment, cyclops, a great stupid one.

Heres a quote I found on the web:
"But studies show that the heaviest lottery players -- the 20% of players who contribute 82% of lottery revenue -- disproportionately are low-income, minority men who have less than a college education."

I vote for eliminating a terrible voluntary tax on minority men with little education that likely many live in poverty. This is actually something decent that we could do with government with one stroke of a pen, eliminate a lousy regressive policy and regressive voluntary tax on the poor. It is siphoning off billions with a very low rate of return of that money into something useful, and the winners of lotteries are very few and far between.

And if the Texas lottery raised 10 billion, I guess that means that 25 to maybe 30 billion is totally down the drain. What a waste. We ought to string up the scammers. Scams, thats all they are. Government run get rich quick scams. It should be a crime.
okie
 
  3  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2008 11:14 pm
@okie,
One more comment, cyclops, your post supporting lotteries was PATHETIC, PATHETIC, PATHETIC! You can do better than that.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 05:15 pm
@okie,
No chance okie.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 06:16 pm
Quote:
In one the most extraordinary days in Wall Street’s history, Merrill Lynch is near an 11th-hour deal with Bank of America to avert a deepening financial crisis while another storied securities firm, Lehman Brothers, hurtled toward liquidation, according to people briefed on the deal.
The dramatic turn of events was prompted by the cataclysm of losses that has shaken the American financial industry over the last 14 months.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/business/15lehman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

****, ****, **** ****....WE'RE FUCKED
9% UNEMPLOYMENT by the end of the year, you heard it here first
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 07:11 pm
(oops. just passing through to see what yall have been talking about lately. Don't mind me).
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 07:27 pm
Quote:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. credit squeeze has brought on a "once-in-a-century" financial crisis that is likely to claim more big firms before it eases, former Federal Reserve chief Alan Greenspan said Sunday.

Greenspan told ABC's "This Week" that the situation "is in the process of outstripping anything I've seen, and it still is not resolved and it still has a way to go."

"Indeed, it will continue to be a corrosive force until the price of homes in the United States stabilizes," Greenspan said. He predicted that would not happen until early 2009, and said the odds of U.S. recession have gone up in recent months.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/14/news/economy/greenspan/index.htm?cnn=yes

REALLY, You think? You created the conditions for this by not paying attention to fundamentals, by giving the idiot politicians the economy they wanted instead of the economy that America needed for long term health and stability....thanks a lot asshole
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 09:59 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

One more comment, cyclops, your post supporting lotteries was PATHETIC, PATHETIC, PATHETIC! You can do better than that.


Bull ****, Okie. When you say 'down the drain,' what do you mean? The money didn't disappear. It didn't get spent on the cost of running the lottery. Where did it go? Explain. Because to me, it seems that the vast amount of money is... returned to some of those who play. Given to private citizens. That money is then funneled back into the economy. At what point is it wasted, exactly?

It's crazy to me, that you, a Republican, would seek to ban a voluntary activity, one which raises funds for the government on a voluntary basis. Nobody is forced to play the lottery. Aren't you a captain of personal responsibility? Do you really want things banned just b/c you don't agree with them?

You didn't respond to my post about earmarks on the other thread, and how ridiculous it is to target something which makes up less then 1 percent of our budget, as an area for serious reform.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 10:03 pm
In other news,

Merrill is bought out today.
Lehman fails today.
AIG is having a fire sale to raise money so they don't collapse.
WaMu may go down as well this week.

But hey, to the Conservatives, everything's just f*cking peachy, right?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2008 12:31 pm
I just saw the latest Rep ad. ...


"Our economy in crisis. Only proven reformers John McCain and Sarah Palin can fix it." Wink
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2008 01:43 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I doubt they've said they can fix it. Handle it better than Big Ears is probably all they dare risk.

They might have said it though because it doesn't mean anything anyway.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2008 02:14 pm
The Dow closes today at -504, the 6th biggest drop in history and the biggest in 7 years.

But hey, everything's just fine if you are a Republican; It's just whiners out there complaining, right?

Cycloptichorn
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2008 02:28 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
You love it don't you Cyclo. Gloating like that.

The DOW is still in the 11,000 range isn't it? That's pretty good. It was bugger all once. So we overshot a bit. It's better than undershooting. The houses got built didn't they. They are still houses no matter what their value on paper.

It's exciting. What more do you want? You have the biggest big dippers don't you? Biggest hats too. If we are going all the way till the wheels fall off and burn, as Dylan said, you can expect the vehicle to lurch from side to side a bit in the prelims.

I bet you're hoping the Dow drops another dollop tomorrow.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2008 03:19 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
The Dow was 3000 in early '91.

Gold was about 300 and is now about 800.

3 into 11 is better than 3 into 8. As I think you can only pretend to go off the gold standard I think the market might well go to 8000 unless gold goes to 1100.
Ramafuchs
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2008 09:58 pm
@spendius,
this thread deserve to get the attention of the new members, because the title is still relavent to exchange the views
0 Replies
 
 

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