112
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 05:38 pm
Yep, Lehman is finished
Quote:
By David Cho and Heather Landy
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, September 11, 2008; 7:18 PM

The Federal Reserve and Treasury are actively helping Lehman Brothers put itself up for sale, and officials are hoping a deal will be in place this weekend before Asian markets open on Monday, according to sources familiar with the matter.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/11/AR2008091102580.html?hpid=topnews
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:07 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Whats interesting about this is alot of people have the perception that it is very bad out there, but most people when asked if they know anybody that is starving, invariably the picture improves considerably. Personally, everybody I know very well are doing okay, some are having to work somewhat harder hours, but all have jobs, and I am talking about a few dozen people. Granted, I don't live in an inner city, but the people that I am guessing are without a dime when I see them in a convenience store or someplace like that, they are doing one of a few things, buying lottery tickets, jumbo drinks at highway robbery prices, cigarettes, candy, potato chips, and stuff like that. Their cars have license plates hanging by one bolt and the windows are taped up or a tail light is taped with red tape after being broken. Often, the body is covered with tattoos, which I am sure also costs money. Without being too judgemental, I think alot of the problem is that of making the wrong choices. Can a president fix that problem? I personally doubt it.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 07:19 pm
@okie,
okie, Check with your local food bank, and ask them how many more people they're serving food to. You're blind as a bat in daylight.

Try this: http://www.2ndharvest.net/aboutus/news_0608_foodcrisis.php

We live in one of the richest area of the US.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 07:24 pm
Here's another that speaks to the national demand at food banks.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004440010_foodbanks27.html

okie wrote:
Quote:
Without being too judgemental, I think alot of the problem is that of making the wrong choices.


Do you always contradict yourself in the same sentence?
okie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 07:27 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I have a new idea, not thrown out there lately, ban lotteries. There is one huge drain on the economies, and it is a tax on poor people, albeit a voluntary tax, but a tax nonetheless. How many hundreds of millions of dollars is it draining out of peoples budgets. Where are the articles, the studies, the people talking about this?
okie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 07:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I could have been more forceful, ci, I said it nice. I said it was wrong choices, not that they were stupid.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 07:33 pm
@cicerone imposter,
the problem for food banks is that demand is up but donations are down. Also, rural food banks are getting killed by the high cost of gas which is nice because the high cost of gas also hurts the rural working poor the hardest of anyone in then nation so rural demand is high. My guess is that if you need to see kids without enough to eat to begin taking this thing seriously then you should go to some southern rural or Appalachian county.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 07:34 pm
@okie,
Lotteries were always a bad idea, they are a regressive tax on the poor and the stupid.
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 09:45 pm
@cicerone imposter,
a few years ago, the job connect office, the parking lot had about 12 car at 2 in the afternoon.

i go in from the beginning of this year, at 8 am, the parking lot is packed.

food stamp office is PACKED even worse than usual, lines out the door...

noone i know has savings, pure debt. they got jobs tho for sure.


everyone i know had their hours cut.


the economy is ridiculous.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 09:57 pm
@okie,
okie, By your statement, you assume "all" the people with financial problems "just made wrong choices." Well, I wish you would wake up and smell the coffee in the morning, cause that's not even close to the whole story of the economic problems plaguing our country.

Some did make "stupid" choices, but that's no reason to penalize all those having financial problems.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 10:00 pm
Quote:
"I don't see where the economy is falling off the cliff, I don't see where there's big evidence of massively escalating credit default, and I don't see where anything has really changed in the last few days to make Lehman a $4 stock versus a $20 stock. So what we're dealing with, I think, is less fundamentals than fear," Paulsen said. "It's spooky because I'm not sure anyone has an answer as to how you'd end it."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/11/AR2008091102580.html?hpid=topnews

You see this all the time now; the pros saying that the numbers are not all that bad but almost everybody you talk to says that from what they see (talking about working stiffs now) things are bad and sure to get worse. The lack of hours is part of it, but a lot of people still working know that the sales numbers and order numbers are not good, that if things don't pick up soon drastic employment reductions are imminent. They also know their family budget situation.

About 15 years ago there was a guy who wrote a book that argued that the numbers that economists, the corporations, and government use to gauge the economy were becoming divorced from the economic reality of the masses. I thought then that he was right, and I think now the pros are lost because they have not realized that their view of the economy is the wrong one.
okie
 
  3  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 11:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

okie, By your statement, you assume "all" the people with financial problems "just made wrong choices." Well, I wish you would wake up and smell the coffee in the morning, cause that's not even close to the whole story of the economic problems plaguing our country.

Some did make "stupid" choices, but that's no reason to penalize all those having financial problems.

I didn't say all, but I think many. I don't know about you, but I see alot of people buying junk, junk here, junk there, junk everywhere.

And obviously many people bought houses they couldn't afford, and loan companies made loans they should never have made.

Speaking of lotteries, does anyone know how many tens of billions are sucked out of the economy on lottery tickets, that could be spent on something useful? I couldn't find it on web. Its as if nobody cares?
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 11:38 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

okie, By your statement, you assume "all" the people with financial problems "just made wrong choices." Well, I wish you would wake up and smell the coffee in the morning, cause that's not even close to the whole story of the economic problems plaguing our country.

Some did make "stupid" choices, but that's no reason to penalize all those having financial problems.

I didn't say all, but I think many. I don't know about you, but I see alot of people buying junk, junk here, junk there, junk everywhere.

And obviously many people bought houses they couldn't afford, and loan companies made loans they should never have made.

Speaking of lotteries, does anyone know how many tens of billions are sucked out of the economy on lottery tickets, that could be spent on something useful? I couldn't find it on web. Its as if nobody cares?


Where exactly do you think that lottery money goes, that it's 'sucked out of the economy?' Some sort of black hole?

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  4  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 11:56 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Yeah, alot of it goes to black holes. Some of it for management and advertisement of the lottery to administer it, print tickets, on and on. which is a waste of resources that could be directed toward more fruitful endeavors. Secondly, alot of the people buying tickets are those that can least afford it, thus a tax on the poor. Small winners reinvest in more tickets, thus perpetuating more losses. Big winners are few and far between, and don't help many people. Then whats left over is invested into sometimes questionable or unnecessary government programs. And if the programs are truly that great, such as schools, a real tax should be instituted wherein the people that can best afford the tax would pay most of it. Yes lotteries are government sanctioned gambling, promoting the idea that you can get something for nothing, which is the last thing that government should be doing.

Bottom line, lotteries do not promote efficient use of resources. Money is directed into wasteful and useless endeavors.
OGIONIK
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 12:26 am
@okie,
shiiiiitt. let them gamble.

cull the weak as far as im concerned.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 09:20 am
@OGIONIK,
Fine, I am not advocating at this point to outlaw gambling, I just don't want my government doing it and managing it. That is not what government is supposed to be doing. That is not its job, period.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 11:12 am
@okie,
Petty cash stuff compared to what we're spending on the war in Iraq, and all those pork to nowhere.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 11:54 am
@hawkeye10,
Hawk wrote-

Quote:
Lotteries were always a bad idea, they are a regressive tax on the poor and the stupid.


They are much more than that old chap.

They suck money from the provinces into the centre. They give some back to the provinces of course but all the provincial media are owned in the centre so they make a big fuss about a local grant. It goes without saying, I presume, that the amount retained in the centre is greater, probably much greater, than the contribution the centre makes to ticket sales. A money pump in other words.

But that is not all. The grants to the provinces come with conditions such as is fitting for a feminist agenda. A working men's club I was a member of got a grant of £275,000 to build netball facilities next to its football, cricket and bowling pitches on condition women were allowed into the snooker, darts and cards games room. Farting ceased of course, other than silent ones, and the men were introduced to some particularly vile language and unreasonable behaviour patterns.

That was about 5 years ago. The club has recently been demolished and the site is being redeveloped. A club in Manchester told them to shove their money up their thingies and is still going strong.

They even used this gambit to get women into the Long Room at Lord's with a bribe of a few million.

Now smoking is banned in pubs. Women hate men spending money on anything unconnected with their own desires.

And it's probably all corrupt as well.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 09:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
perhapse this is a case of a number catching up with a reality that has existed for months
Quote:
Retail Sales Fall for Second Straight Month

Reuters
Friday, September 12, 2008; 8:39 AM

WASHINGTON - Total sales at retailers in August fell for a second month in a row, according to a government report on Friday that showed consumers were coming under increasing pressure amid rising prices.

Sales dropped 0.3 percent in August to a seasonally adjusted $381.17 billion after a sharply revised 0.5 percent drop in July that previously was reported as only a 0.1 percent decline.

The August fall in sales was sharply contrary to forecasts by Wall Street analysts surveyed by Reuters who had expected a 0.2 percent sales increase.

Sales at motor vehicle dealers rose 1.9 percent in August -- the first increase since January -- after a 4.3 percent July drop. But August sales still were down 13.5 percent from a year earlier.

Excluding motor vehicles, retail sales in August were down 0.7 percent after gaining 0.3 percent in July

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091201099.html?hpid=sec-business
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2008 08:10 am
@okie,
okie wrote :

Quote:
Speaking of lotteries, does anyone know how many tens of billions are sucked out of the economy on lottery tickets, that could be spent on something useful? I couldn't find it on web. Its as if nobody cares?


i don't think the lotteries (government) want us to know what is being sucked out , but see plenty of ads telling us the "good" being done with lottery money .
when i pick up the paper at the corner store on saturday morning , there are plenty of people putting down $20 and more for tickets - SHUDDER !
i don't know that one can change people's behaviour ? it's seems a worldwide "disease" - luckily , we haven't been infected by the lottery bug yet - but who knows what we'll do next ?
hbg
 

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