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Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2008 02:01 pm
I have taken a short position and am doing quite well. I saw this coming months ago, (and posted such here several times) wish I had more $$$$ to play with, actually I plan to...soon.

THE BIG MELTDOWN is coming in the next ninety days, then we will be putting the money into real estate. There are some real bargains out there now but it's going to get better. (worse for the bulls)

How anyone could not have seen this coming is beyond me but I guess I am a little smarter than the average bear (or bull.)

And yes this is a dead cat bounce. The FED is in PANIC mode.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2008 02:18 pm
Roxxxanne, I also saw this coming, and sold 87% of our YTD gains when the market hit 14,100, and shifted them into federal money market at Vanguard.

I differ in the philosophy of the market from many, but still believe it will continue to outperform all other types of investments in the long term, and will ride the market until it recovers.

With a mix of equities and bond funds, we'll modify the huge swings in the market.
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Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2008 02:18 pm
The system is rotten to the core.
System in this sense is umbridled American aggressive system.
Of course the whole world is there to uplift USA from the self made miserable, pathetic quakmire.
Let there be some who wish to profit thro this nonsense.
The majority of Americans are decent and intelligent enough
to show those banal, barbaric profiteers the door.
Rama
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2008 06:47 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Roxxxanne, I also saw this coming, and sold 87% of our YTD gains when the market hit 14,100, and shifted them into federal money market at Vanguard.

I differ in the philosophy of the market from many, but still believe it will continue to outperform all other types of investments in the long term, and will ride the market until it recovers.

With a mix of equities and bond funds, we'll modify the huge swings in the market.


We have been in a secular bear market since y2k. Secular bears typically last up to 18 years so we may have another 10 years to ride this one out. The meltdown is coming and it's going to take a long time before we recover but what do I know? I am just a dumb blonde chanteuse. Smile
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2008 07:02 pm
Roxxxanne, I agree that this "one" is going to take a lot longer for it to recover, but we must remember how the market looked in 2002 and 2003. Even compared to 2005, this year looks reasonable. I also see more bears in the market, even though many of the financial pundits are more positive about turning this market around, because what the feds and our government is doing to respond to this crisis. <zzzzzzzz>
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2008 07:32 pm
This graph puts into perspective what has happened not only today, but what we can anticipate during the next year or so.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/imposter222/dow_topper_inset.gif
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2008 08:39 pm
ci, in your opinion, how much lower will interest rates be dropped, and what will this translate into in terms of home loan rates, and when?
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2008 09:22 pm
Okie: the rather unprecedented .75% "emergency" reduction yesterday may be followed by another .25% decrease when the Fed meets next week. That is the speculation I am reading.
But these cuts are designed to oil the system, to keep the banking industry from seizing up.
I don't see it impacting mortgage rates anytime soon. The banks don't have any money to lend or the loan officers are too nervous about having their fingerprints on any loan that may go bad.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2008 09:23 pm
Thanks for your opinion, rjb.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2008 09:30 pm
I agree with rjb; liquidity is the problem for the next few years, because people are now gun-shy about investing money into banks and mortgage loans companies like Countrywide.

Mortgage loan and credit card interest rates aren't going to be affected by the lower short-term interest rate cuts by the feds, because if we look at the past decade, it didn't matter where the short-term interest rate were set; it never benefited the consumer. Do you remember when credit card interest rates were below ten percent? I don't.

You can't get blood out of a turnip; the consumer has nowhere else to go to borrow money, because the equity in their homes are now gone. In this kind of scenario, it doesn't matter what the interest rate is. With high debt and no assets, who's going to lend them money?

We're in this for the long haul.
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Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2008 09:42 pm
We'er goig to a housing auction. Our freind the real estate agent says shes never seen anything like it in her lifetime.

50 K for a house in Califonia ?!?!?!? Weeeeeeeee.
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Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2008 10:52 pm
How joyful! Some poor soul and his family lost his home and got tossed out on the street without their dream home. Wheeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jan, 2008 07:24 am
cicerone imposter wrote:


Mortgage loan and credit card interest rates aren't going to be affected by the lower short-term interest rate cuts by the feds, because if we look at the past decade, it didn't matter where the short-term interest rate were set; it never benefited the consumer. Do you remember when credit card interest rates were below ten percent? I don't.



CCrates are under 10% now[url] to those who are credit worthy and shop for the best deal.

Mortgage rates will come down as well even though the Fed cuts directly affect short term rates, the softening will spill into the mortgage market.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jan, 2008 11:16 am
LOWER PRIME RATE
-----------------------
a/t one of the CNBC commentators the low prime rate will have to be of very short duration since it is BELOW the inflation rate . a/t her , they would simply not be sustainable . ?????
hbg
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jan, 2008 11:21 am
Probably a trashed house; prices aren't that low yet.

Europe did bad last night, Asia a little better. The markets didn't buy the rate cut.

If we get into a Japanish, 0% interest for 5 years situation, there will be serious trouble.

Cycloptichorn
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jan, 2008 11:23 am
From the WSJ

Quote:
The glum news from U.S. banks continued with steep declines in fourth-quarter profit at five large lenders, led by Bank of America Corp. and Wachovia Corp., while mortgage-related woes plunged regional bank National City Corp. to a steep loss.

.....

The results capped a miserable earnings season for the banking industry, which was riding high until the mortgage meltdown triggered huge write-downs on investments, forced banks to begin hastily rebuilding loan-loss reserves, and exposed how far many lenders strayed from their roots during the housing boom. "It is back to basics," Bank of America Chief Financial Officer Joe Price told analysts in a conference call yesterday.

.....

Despite saving $500 million a year with the dividend cut, Jeff Kelly, National City's chief financial officer, said the Cleveland bank still is considering "a number of options for nondilutive...capital issuance this quarter."

.....

At Regions Financial Corp., Birmingham, Ala., which has a major presence in Florida and other parts of the Southeast being clobbered by the housing downturn, profit tumbled 80%. KeyCorp, of Cleveland, reported an 83% profit decline. Fifth Third Bancorp of Cincinnati saw its fourth-quarter net income slide 39%. National City swung to a loss of $333 million, or 53 cents a share, from a year-earlier profit of $842 million, or $1.36 a share.

While all six banks said the performance of many businesses remains at least decent overall despite the weakening economy, deteriorating credit quality is causing loan-loss reserves to balloon in anticipation of further trouble. The six banks reported a combined loan-loss provision of $6.22 billion in the fourth quarter, up 181% from $2.21 billion a year earlier.


Cycloptichorn
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jan, 2008 11:39 am
this could turn out to be a nasty piece of business !
it's like your home insurance company telling you that they can't pay your claim AFTER your house has burned down , or the life insurance company telling your "grieving" relatives that there is not even any money for your casket (after you're gone) .
if you can't have confidence in your insurance company ... that's getting very nasty imo .
hbg


Quote:
Bond insurance crisis looms on Wall StreetMonolines, the latest entry in Wall Street's expanding lexicon of doom, have always operated on the fringes of the financial system. Originally, they made money by guaranteeing bonds for municipalities: They would promise to pay the interest on these bonds if a town or city defaulted on the payments.

Beginning around 2000, however, many of these firms migrated into more complex products, and began insuring securities such as collateralized debt obligations (CDOs), which pool various forms of debt, including subprime mortgages.


Of the $2.4-trillion (U.S.) worth of insurance coverage these companies provide, approximately $125-billion is tied to the faltering home market, according to industry estimates.

This latter piece of business, in particular, has created widespread fear among investors, some of whom believe the monolines could represent the next major land mine for credit markets.

The reasoning is this: Major banks, including Citigroup, UBS, Merrill Lynch and Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce, among others, have used these firms to hedge against their subprime exposure.


Already these banks have collectively absorbed more than $100-billion in writedowns related to CDOs, and the deteriorating health of monolines could compound that figure substantially. If that happens, the banks may further tighten their grip on capital and slow down lending to consumers.

The concern is that these monolines will be less likely to backstop their guarantees on potential subprime losses if their credit ratings are reduced.

"We don't think it will get us out of the mortgage mess," Nigel Myer, a financial credit analyst at Dresdner Kleinwort in London, said of the Fed's 0.75-percentage-point cut Tuesday. "It won't solve the monoline problem."

The largest monolines, Ambac Financial Group Inc. and MBIA Inc., did bounce back sharply in U.S. trading, gaining 29 and 47 per cent respectively. But some market watchers believe that was also due to other factors, including Ambac's acknowledgment that it was looking at "strategic alternatives."

Ambac reported a $3.3-billion quarterly loss Tuesday, just a few days after Fitch Ratings downgraded its triple-A status. Standard & Poor's and Moody's Investors Services have placed both Ambac and MBIA on credit watch with negative implications, while a smaller insurer, ACA Capital, has lost its A rating, and is now struggling to stay afloat after losing almost all of its market value. CIBC has already taken a $2-billion writeoff to cover its exposure to ACA, and Merrill Lynch took a $1.9-billion charge.

"This rate move should not be bad for credit, given that it will eventually ease any funding burden and hopefully support the growth outlook," Société Générale credit strategist Suki Mann said in a note to clients. But he added that the markets "also need a plan for the monoline insurers, if only to restore some much needed confidence to the credit markets."

The New York Department of Insurance took a step in that direction Tuesday, announcing it was drafting new rules that would "redefine the future activities" of monoline insurers. "It is clearly time to develop new rules for the road," Insurance Superintendent Eric Dinallo said an e-mailed statement Wednesday. "The department is engaged with insurers, banks, financial advisers, credit-rating agencies, other regulators and government officials, and other stakeholders in examining and developing measures to help stabilize the market." With files from our news services




source :
BOND INSURANCE CRISIS
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jan, 2008 11:42 am
Quote:


Ambac reported a $3.3-billion quarterly loss Tuesday, just a few days after Fitch Ratings downgraded its triple-A status. Standard & Poor's and Moody's Investors Services have placed both Ambac and MBIA on credit watch with negative implications, while a smaller insurer, ACA Capital, has lost its A rating, and is now struggling to stay afloat after losing almost all of its market value. CIBC has already taken a $2-billion writeoff to cover its exposure to ACA, and Merrill Lynch took a $1.9-billion charge.


When the bond insurers are downgraded, every bond they insure will be as well.

When they go under (which will happen) then the value of those bonds plummets.

It will be a wide-spread problem in 2008.

Cycloptichorn
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jan, 2008 12:30 pm
The shrinking of cash in our economy - irregardless of how cheap money becomes from drop in interest rates - will affect our economy with more than a recession.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jan, 2008 12:31 pm
cyclo wrote :

Quote:
It will be a wide-spread problem in 2008.


IS THERE STILL TIME TO ...

http://galen-frysinger.com/images/stop_the_world.jpg

hmb Shocked Laughing
0 Replies
 
 

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