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Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 06:33 pm
From the US Census Bureau:

States



showed increases in their poverty rates based on two-year moving averages (2001-2002 and 2002-2003),

Hard work, heh?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 06:35 pm
okie wrote:
Free enterprise and capitalism in a civil society with rule of law and less corruption encourages more hard work, imposter. Do you comprehend it? Bottom line, its hard work, not luck.

If people know they are working for the State, they don't work as hard, and if people know what they worked for will be taken from them by higher taxes and / or corruption, they don't work as hard.
what a crock of bullshit okie, there are slackers in every occupation. I spent a lifetime as a child protection worker, i was on call 24/7 to respond to calls from the police/ fire department/school district/public health etc and it was my responsibilty to respond in person to secure the safety of every child deemed at risk be it 2 a..m or 5 p.m. every day of the week and every holiday none of this was on pay as it was considered my job to do so. You are a political con artist in distorting public service. I would suppose you think the same of police officers or firemen. You present as a ignorant asshole when you present such misguided and corrupt ideology.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 06:37 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
okie wrote:
Free enterprise and capitalism in a civil society with rule of law and less corruption encourages more hard work, imposter. Do you comprehend it? Bottom line, its hard work, not luck.

If people know they are working for the State, they don't work as hard, and if people know what they worked for will be taken from them by higher taxes and / or corruption, they don't work as hard.



okie, You wouldn't know "hard work" by any stretch of most people's defintion. You also have no understanding about "higher taxes" or corruption. Most countries in Europe and the UK pay higher taxes; why is their standard of living equal to or better than the US?

By whos standard, imposter. I've been to the UK and know people that live there and a rich man there has what, a "nice" flat of a thousand square feet worth a half million and 2 cars parked on the sidewalk? You couldn't pay me enough to live there.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 06:43 pm
dyslexia wrote:
okie wrote:
Free enterprise and capitalism in a civil society with rule of law and less corruption encourages more hard work, imposter. Do you comprehend it? Bottom line, its hard work, not luck.

If people know they are working for the State, they don't work as hard, and if people know what they worked for will be taken from them by higher taxes and / or corruption, they don't work as hard.
what a crock of bullshit okie, there are slackers in every occupation. I spent a lifetime as a child protection worker, i was on call 24/7 to respond to calls from the police/ fire department/school district/public health etc and it was my responsibilty to respond in person to secure the safety of every child deemed at risk be it 2 a..m or 5 p.m. every day of the week and every holiday none of this was on pay as it was considered my job to do so. You are a political con artist in distorting public service. I would suppose you think the same of police officers or firemen. You present as a ignorant **** when you present such misguided and corrupt ideology.

dyslexia, when you actually try to post a reasoned post, you flunk. I wasn't talking about a government job in capitalistic society, but rather when I said "working for the State," I meant working in a highly socialistic or communist society where you cannot keep what you work for or own property, etc. What I meant should have been obvious.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 06:52 pm
yes of course, "you meant" but I go on what you said, which leaves me with you are an ignorant ashhole.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 06:59 pm
When your argument is obviously wrong, you again resort to calling names. You would be better served to actually read the posts instead of jumping to obviously wrong conclusions. Oh well, try a reasoned post again sometime, dys, if you think you can muster it.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 07:23 pm
okie wrote:
I wasn't talking about a government job in capitalistic society, but rather when I said "working for the State," I meant working in a highly socialistic or communist society where you cannot keep what you work for or own property, etc. What I meant should have been obvious.

In this case, I don't see how your comment is relevant at all to the reality of public affairs in America. Although I know influential politicians trying to create more government jobs within America's capitalistic society, none of them wants to abolish capitalism and replace it with a highly socialistic or communist society. Only a few cranks want that, none of whom stands a chance of getting elected into any public office higher than dog-catcher.

If your comment was only about people who work in socialist or communist governments, how did you mean it to apply to America? Or didn't you?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 07:25 pm
okie, You have no sense or common sense when it comes to most topics on a2k. Your posts rarely if ever have universal meaning, and your myopian view of most things that are common knowledge gets sidetracked with irrelevance. That's the reason most people who engage you in any discussion must always repeat things that are self-explanatory to most.

Your myopic belief that "hard work" is the answer to all poverty is ignorant at best, and stupid at every level of discussion.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 07:32 pm
STANDARD OF LIVING INDEX: The US is #12.

Top thirty countries (HDI range from 0.968 down to 0.894)
1 Iceland 0.968 ( 1)
2 Norway 0.968 ( 1)
3 Australia 0.962 ()
4 Canada 0.961 ( 2)
5 Ireland 0.959 ( 1)
6 Sweden 0.956 ( 1)
7 Switzerland 0.955 ( 2)
8 Japan 0.953 ( 1)
9 Netherlands 0.953 ( 1)
10 France 0.952 ( 6)
11 Finland 0.952 ()
12 United States 0.951 ( 4)
13 Spain 0.949 ( 6)
14 Denmark 0.949 ( 1)
15 Austria 0.948 ( 1)
16 United Kingdom 0.946 ( 2)
17 Belgium 0.946 ( 4)
18 Luxembourg 0.944 ( 6)
19 New Zealand 0.943 ( 1)
20 Italy 0.941 ( 3)
21 Hong Kong 0.937 ( 1)
22 Germany 0.935 ( 1)
23 Israel 0.932 ()
24 Greece 0.926 ()
25 Singapore 0.922 ()
26 South Korea 0.921 ()
27 Slovenia 0.917 ()
28 Cyprus 0.903 ( 1)
29 Portugal 0.897 ( 1)
30 Brunei 0.894 ( 4)
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 07:35 pm
Thomas wrote:
okie wrote:
I wasn't talking about a government job in capitalistic society, but rather when I said "working for the State," I meant working in a highly socialistic or communist society where you cannot keep what you work for or own property, etc. What I meant should have been obvious.

In this case, I don't see how your comment is relevant at all to the reality of public affairs in America. Although I know influential politicians trying to create more government jobs within America's capitalistic society, none of them wants to abolish capitalism and replace it with a highly socialistic or communist society. Only a few cranks want that, none of whom stands a chance of getting elected into any public office higher than dog-catcher.

If your comment was only about people who work in socialist or communist governments, how did you mean it to apply to America? Or didn't you?

Thomas, you need to go back and read the posts to understand the context. Imposter was arguing with MM and asserted that his success was mostly due to luck, whereas MM said it is mostly due to hard work. I agreed with MM, and did add that wherein imposter claimed being born in America was good luck, I argued that the favorable circumstances were created in America, not by luck, but by hard work. Imposter claimed hard work in other countries did not pay off as in America, but I simply pointed out that capitalism and free enterprise in a country with low corruption and rule of law encouraged more hard work.

Luck is not enough. Luck is nice, but people also create their own luck, as cyclops described very well.

Everything I said is entirely logical and basic, and anyone that has studied economics and history should know it. I find it incredible that anyone should even argue about it.

I want to clarify that hard work includes not only physical work, but brain work, which includes good management, which are all encouraged and maximized by free enterprise.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 07:41 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
okie, You have no sense or common sense when it comes to most topics on a2k. Your posts rarely if ever have universal meaning, and your myopian view of most things that are common knowledge gets sidetracked with irrelevance. That's the reason most people who engage you in any discussion must always repeat things that are self-explanatory to most.

Your myopic belief that "hard work" is the answer to all poverty is ignorant at best, and stupid at every level of discussion.

Hard work is better than luck, imposter, which is why I recommend it instead of Vegas. Hard work includes brain work, which in turn includes good management, which I think should be intuitively obvious. If you believe success is 90% luck, I would have to say you are just wrong, period.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 07:42 pm
okie: By whos standard, imposter. I've been to the UK and know people that live there and a rich man there has what, a "nice" flat of a thousand square feet worth a half million and 2 cars parked on the sidewalk? You couldn't pay me enough to live there.

Who gives a rat's ass where you want to live? We're talking about "standard of living" and "hard work." CLUE: It's not about you.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 07:59 pm
What is your graph showing standard of living based on and who compiled it? And if I choose where to live, I don't care about your graph either.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 08:31 pm
The HDI was launched by Brazil, but there are other "reports" on HDI that supports their analysis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 08:35 pm
I hve to keep reminding you, this subject about standard of living and hard work isn't about you. It's about those who do work hard, and "their" standard of living.

You and mm claim all that's needed is "hard work." You're full of shite - as usual.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 08:51 pm
Once again, a look at the numbers is revealing. Take a look at literacy skills numbers in the Human Poverty Index, imposter, and your liberal government education establishment is failing big time. Its time for some form of vouchers, or free enterprise, perhaps, don't you think?
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 11:49 am
Changing the subject slightly: I note, CI, that California is facing a budget deficit of between 10 and 14 BILLION for the CURRENT fiscal year, which is already about half over. Arnold has declared some sort of financial emergency which will set up a special session of your legislature to get things back in balance through cutting expenditures or raising taxes. California, as I understand it, requires a balanced budget.
The culprits blamed for this are slowdowns in construction, high energy costs etc.
I would appreciate your observations on what is going on in CA, as that is probably a precurser for other state and local governments around the country.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 11:55 am
rjb, It's my humble opinion that the subprime mortgage debacle is affecting more than loss of homes by millions of families; it also affects state and loc l (property and sales) taxes. This morning's San Jose Merc identified most of the problem loans are to Hispanics in our area - over 65 percent.

Ahnold is telling state government officials that they're going to have to cut ten percent of all expenditures; that means layoffs and cuts in state spending. That in turn will exacerbate mortgage and tax problems.

It's going to be a pyramid scheme where one problem begins to impact our economy in many ways.

I suspect most states will also experience the same problems.

Look for a recession in 2008.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 12:17 pm
CI said...

Quote:
Over 90 percent of the world population lives on less than $1 a day


That actually isnt true.

According to this site...
http://www.success-and-culture.net/articles/percapitaincome.shtml

only 28 countries have a per capita income of less then a dollar a day, based on 2003 numbers.
So, you are wrong on that point.

And I NEVER said that hard work alone will allow everyone to succeed, and I defy you or anyone else to show where I did say it.
I did say that hard work is a major factor in whether or not someone succeeds in life.
There is also education, a good work ethic, and a little luck.

But "luck" just doesnt fall into a persons lap,it is actually made by a person, based on how hard they work.
I didnt have luck fall into my lap, I worked hard and made my own luck.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 12:30 pm
mm, Do you understand what a "rhetorical statement" is?
0 Replies
 
 

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