114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2013 06:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You'll never convince me I'm wrong.


On that point we agree. Your prejudices and resistence to information that doesn't conform to them is far too strong. It's very hard to open a closed mind.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2013 06:31 pm
@spendius,
The liberal news is pretty pathetic, weep on...
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2013 07:52 pm
@georgeob1,
However, I have provided more resources for my position, while you have provided personal opinion. You can figure out who has the better grasp of reality.

Another proof of executive pay vs workers.
http://www.payscale.com/ceo-income
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2013 08:05 pm
@cicerone imposter,
What's a resource? I haven't seen any evidence offered here by you on the topic we've been discussing - only unqualified and unsubstantiaterd statements of yourprefabricated prejudices. I have at least taken the trouble to analyze the information others have posted and pointed out some rather obvious flaws in their posted information. Apparently you (and perhaps some others here) believe that anything you can find on the internet is absolute truth.

Instead I have offered a little critical thinking and some easily verified facts. Either are a lot better than the grossly distorted information pasted here about CEO/worker salary ratios. Sadly it appears to be easier to paste false propaganda here than to think about what it might imply and discover the gross distortions in it.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2013 08:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Here's another where a CEO got a golden parachute for failing at her job.

Quote:
Biggest Golden Parachutes
As outcry grows over executives who reap millions in severance bonuses in the face of their companies' downfalls and bail-outs, TIME takes a look at other golden parachutes — and the people who opened them.


With Fiorina as chairman and CEO, Hewlett-Packard's value declined significantly and the technology giant endured massive layoffs. Fiorina led a largely unsuccessful merger with Compaq in 2002, going against the wishes of company founder Walter Hewlett. Asked by the board of directors to step down in 2005, Fiorina left with $21 million in cash, plus stock and pension benefits worth another $19 million. According to HP executive compensation rules, departing executives are entitled to no more than 2.99 times their base salary; anything more requires stockholder approval. Fiorina's parachute was more than that, so the stockholders filed a class action suit (a federal judge dismissed it in April 2008). Fiorina is now a Fox Business Network contributor and a top economic advisor to Republican presidential candidate John McCain.


Read more: http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1848501_1848500_1848417,00.html #ixzz2Iwu1K3F4
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2013 08:10 pm
@georgeob1,
Any resource where you attack the messenger and not the message.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2013 08:13 pm
@georgeob1,
You (typical response),
Quote:
Sadly it appears to be easier to paste false propaganda here than to think about what it might imply and discover the gross distortions in it.


Why is it that you "never" provide credible source to refute them? If they are "false propaganda," surely, it must be very easy to provide any credible source to refute them.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2013 08:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,


What kind of golden parachute will Hillary get for failing at her job?
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2013 08:55 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Well in the case at hand we had one pasted reference that said that in the USA the ratio of CEO pay to that of "workers" was 475, and another that said it was 200. Oddly no one noted the large difference or questioned the veracity of the sources or just why the values are so high here compared to other nations.

I pointed out that both valus were based on extremely vague definitions of just whay constituted the "workers" involved. Did that data represent the average pay of all employees, or the pay of the lowest stratum of them. What was the alleged source of the data ? Neither posted reference acknowledged the source of their information or even offered a precise definition of just what constituted the "average worker". I pointed out that the large majority of employed folks in this country work for privately owned companies for which there is no reliable source of this data - it exists only for publically traded companies which tend to be much larger and, in aggregate, to empluy fewer emplouees.

I also pointed out that, based on my experience in several privately traded companies the ratios involved tended to be much smaller than alleged and that the ratio of the CEO's pay to the lowest tier of employees tended to be much higher than that of the average employee, (common sense), this making the unstated ddefinition of just what constituted "average worker" rather significant. I also noted that in my experience, which I know to be typical of very many private companies, ratios in the range of 9 to about 22 (depending on how one selects and labels "workers", are common - thus wiping out the alleged difference between us and other countries.

This isn't quite a proof of the point. However it does rather thoroughly demolish the nonsense pasted here taken from partisan sources on the internet. It also raises serious questions about the ability of some here to think seriously and critically for themselves.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2013 08:58 pm
@georgeob1,
So you agree that the income tax shows the high wage earners are now making a larger multiple of low wage earners according to the IRS?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2013 09:14 pm
@georgeob1,
You didn't challenge any of the payscale.com pays of CEO's vs workers provided by the link.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2013 09:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
CNNMoney reports that CEO pay is 380x's greater than worker pay.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/19/news/economy/ceo-pay/index.htm

This looks like the "average" of the two you mentioned. Try to refute this article's claim.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2013 09:49 pm
@parados,
Please explain what you mean. Are you referring to extreme individual values or some kind of stratified sample.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 25 Jan, 2013 08:13 am

Obamacare is a growing drag on our economy, it's killing growth.

How Obamacare Will Hurt Tax Payers and Stop the Economic Recovery
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:03 am
@H2O MAN,
So they admit there is a economic recovery now?

In any event, like all the big talk by folks like you during the election, in the end reality catches up.

Is Obama's Coal-Country Nemesis Hiring Again?

H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:05 am

Court says:
PRESIDENT OBAMA'S APPOINTMENTS TO LABOR RELATIONS PANEL UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:07 am
@revelette,

Any 'recovery' that has occurred has occurred in spite of Obama's efforts to kill our economy.

There is no economic recovery occurring in the US.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:13 am


Obama's recent speech removed any & all doubt that he is a moderate, just left of center democrat.

His speech proved that he is the extreme left wing radical liberal people said he was years ago.

His actions back-up and confirm that he is an extreme left wing radical liberal.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:34 am
@revelette,
All watersquirt can do is give all posters he disagrees with a thumb's down, but he himself is so stupid, he doesn't even provide anything worth reading. He's on my Ignore list, and I continue to wonder why anyone would want to engage him in any real discussion when he offers nothing but negativity about Obama and bull **** 100% of the time.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:42 am
Laughing ci repeats lies to himself and others until he thinks he's saying something important
0 Replies
 
 

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