Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 06:42 am
thunder_runner32 wrote:
Evolution as a way of origins, has no proof at all, as far as fossils go. To my knowledge, they still have not found one fossil from a species that was a cross of two different species, or between evolutionary stages.

It seems to me they have found fossils from numerous steps in the evolution of man, e.g. fossils of Australopithecus at Olduvai Gorge in Africa. Where do you figure that species is today?
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 07:22 am
It's not an astute comment anyway. Looking for a cross between a cat and a dog doesn't make any sense -- those are the species that exist today. A lot of folks out there think that one animal evolves into another, but that just ain't the case. You can't be descended from you cousin -- you are both descended from a common set of grandparents. Does Grandma look like a cross between you and your cousin, runner?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 08:10 am
They have, however, recently dug up a common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees with traits of both:

Quote:
Toumaï displays a unique combination of facial, dental (canine) and basicranial characters that clearly supports closer relationships with the human lineage than with Chimpanzees or Gorillas.

His great antiquity (around 7 Myrs) and all his anatomic characters together suggest a close relationship to the last common ancestor between Humans and Chimpanzees. This implies a probable earlier chimpanzee-human divergence (at least as early as 7 millions years ago) than previously indicated by most of the molecular studies.


Source
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 09:13 am
RexRed wrote:
I think the number one rule in science is that just because we cannot see it it does not mean that it does not exist...
If that were the case we would never have looked for bacteria and atoms.

People though that mold spontaneously grew out of food... They did not believe there could be life forms, i.e. diatoms, that tiny and unique. Life forms that were "invisible" to the eye but we could see the effects of them when people would contact with these life forms and plague would result. Yes, some thought these were sent by God... Well what is God? Another thing you cannot see?


It is true that scientists sometimes deal with phenomena that can not be seen by the naked eye. In my opinion, the conflict between religion and science may come from the fact that scientists, in formulating explanations, use human reason rather than divine revelation.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 09:24 am
The fossils that show "budding" from one group to another show many examples of intermediates. Whales, for example show the 5or more morph features that describe "whaleness" starting from a small land mammal that looked more like an otter to the species we see today. To deny these examples is just sticking ones head in the sand.
Now genetics has even more closely linked several orders such that fossil evidence is being challenged (not because it doesnt show linkage but because it shows linkages between several superorders that we never before realized existed). The combination of morphology and genetics is causing serious realinment of the old Linnaean nomenclature.

For some strange religious reason, the IDers and Creationists would rather deny the facts of science than to try to accomodate their teachings. I know for a fact that their belief in a worldwide flood event is totally without evidence and has been proven false . Their adherance to this bitof myth is a foundation of their worldview, no matter what science says. So to try to argue facts would be fruitless. Theyll keep denying facts and truth and continue on their merry path of determined ignorance.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 01:33 pm
wandeljw wrote:
RexRed wrote:
I think the number one rule in science is that just because we cannot see it it does not mean that it does not exist...
If that were the case we would never have looked for bacteria and atoms.

People though that mold spontaneously grew out of food... They did not believe there could be life forms, i.e. diatoms, that tiny and unique. Life forms that were "invisible" to the eye but we could see the effects of them when people would contact with these life forms and plague would result. Yes, some thought these were sent by God... Well what is God? Another thing you cannot see?


It is true that scientists sometimes deal with phenomena that can not be seen by the naked eye. In my opinion, the conflict between religion and science may come from the fact that scientists, in formulating explanations, use human reason rather than divine revelation.


Smile is divine revelation better than a guess?
0 Replies
 
El-Diablo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 01:33 pm
Quote:
Evolution as a way of origins, has no proof at all, as far as fossils go. To my knowledge, they still have not found one fossil from a species that was a cross of two different species, or between evolutionary stages.


I believe this will be the fourth time I am p[osting this but its a real help to those who dont think that intermediates in the fossil record exist.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/images/jaws1.gif

EDIT: HA! Take that 56k'ers
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 02:05 pm
El-Diablo wrote:
Quote:
Evolution as a way of origins, has no proof at all, as far as fossils go. To my knowledge, they still have not found one fossil from a species that was a cross of two different species, or between evolutionary stages.


I believe this will be the fourth time I am p[osting this but its a real help to those who dont think that intermediates in the fossil record exist.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/images/jaws1.gif

EDIT: HA! Take that 56k'ers


very interesting...

It is equally as futile to refute evolution as it is to refute creation... How can we decide one or the other when they appear to have both played a part in our humble beginning... If the big bang was an explosion of immense proportions then what created this imperceptible energy supply in the first place? Though a Christen is truly foolish to deny evolution the scientist is also foolish to refute creation...

I think the best course is to make peace and discuss the way the two compliment each other... this will lead to a complete understanding of the purpose and meaning of life...

Christians do not realize that things were created "before" the seven days of Eden... and scientists do not always acknowledge that things were created possibly during (i.e. spirit) and "before" evolution...

Smile
0 Replies
 
El-Diablo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 02:49 pm
Quote:
It is equally as futile to refute evolution as it is to refute creation... How can we decide one or the other when they appear to have both played a part in our humble beginning... If the big bang was an explosion of immense proportions then what created this imperceptible energy supply in the first place? Though a Christen is truly foolish to deny evolution the scientist is also foolish to refute creation...


I rarely if ever try to refute Creationism as it is impossible. I do my best however to try and to some extent "prove" evolution to those who do not agree with it.
0 Replies
 
thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 05:53 am
I'm not exactly sure how this proves evolution. If these bones are similar, this can show at least two different things: they are all mutations along the evolutionary path, or they are all different creations, with similar attributes.
0 Replies
 
thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 05:53 am
I'm not exactly sure how this proves evolution. If these bones are similar, this can show at least two different things: they are all mutations along the evolutionary path, or they are all different creations, with similar attributes.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 06:10 am
Evolution can be proven just by a moment's contemplation of the subject. Natural selection must occur and mutation must occur. Therefore, in huge populations, over immense numbers of generations, the design of an organism will improve. As has been pointed out endlessly, it happens right in our faces in any situation where the generations are short, as when diseases become immune to medicine. It is, frankly, self-evident.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 06:20 am
Quote:
or they are all different creations, with similar attributes.


This works for me. Lets just ignore "the mountains of all that useless evidence" and come up with a CREATION A DAY hypotheses. yep.

Now were getting down to some real logic.
0 Replies
 
thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 06:23 am
Why is that hard for you to grasp... a creator who uses similar designs, to make different species?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 06:29 am
Its not hard to grasp. Its silly. Try following evidence and dont be such a single minded schnook for your Creationist friends. Im always surprised at how one can look over the evidence and deny its path of logic.

The fact that we have morphological differences that are separated by TIME in the fossil record sort of implies that "special creation" aint happening, unless the Creator is "learning and tweaking. Then , with that in mind, youve just defined evolution
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 07:01 am
Ah yes, but who buried the fossils before God made shovels ?? Huh? HA !! Got ya NOW!!

Sorry...just felt like having a silly moment myself. These crazy christians seem to get away with it, why can't I ?
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 07:14 am
Another perspective on this: "If cavemen had invented natural history museums, we would have a complete fossil record."
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 07:23 am
I wonder what percentage of Americans think "cavemen" had to watch out for dinosaurs?
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 08:52 am
The news on public television showed a "creationist" museum with statues of cavemen interacting with dinosaurs. One of the dinosaurs had a saddle! This museum was started by someone who wanted to illustrate a literal interpretation of Genesis in a "scientific" way.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 09:20 am
In the Creation 2005, a bunch of Creation "scientists" will be doing a display of the "Paluxy man" footprints that are in the Cretaceous shale deposits alongside dinosaur footprints. They dont mention that these human footprints were faked.Theyre still trying to pass these footprints off even after 10 years since the geo dept at Texas A&M showed that they were doctored


A strong religious conviction can always justify fraud.
0 Replies
 
 

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