maineus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 10:22 am
The Real Question
The real question is will we evolve into a peaceful species so that life on Earth can continue?
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 10:44 am
As far as a scientists using science to deteremine if we have a spirit or a soul:

http://www.intuition.org/txt/crick1.htm

He's written two books on the subject and I've read them both. They aren't easy going and I'm sure most people, especially one's who want to limit science, will not take the time to read them. It goes with the territory of abject ignorance. Those who are afflicted with it just want more.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 06:15 pm
real life, on Sunday, continued his oft repeated spiel that states
Quote:
Any evidence that can be interpreted as supporting evolution, can also be interpreted as supporting creation. There is no evidence that 'only evolution explains.'

Can you point to any such evidence that supports creation. youve said this a number of times to try to coopt scientific evidence but, as usual, Im dubious that you know what your saying.

Howa bout even one ferinstance?
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 07:00 pm
Or looked at another way, any evidence can be interpreted anyway anyone wants, but the presenting of an interpretation in and of itself in no way suggests any level of plausibility or rationality or congruence with the facts.

Why?

Because in order for an interpretation to have plausibility or rationality, it naturally must fit the facts and it naturally must be plausible and rational. Christianity is neither plausible nor rational nor fits the facts of evolution.

Christianity is not even as plausible, rational and fitting of the facts as:
I blinked the entire universe into existence, in its totality, in one timeless moment.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 08:46 pm
farmerman wrote:
real life, on Sunday, continued his oft repeated spiel that states
Quote:
Any evidence that can be interpreted as supporting evolution, can also be interpreted as supporting creation. There is no evidence that 'only evolution explains.'

Can you point to any such evidence that supports creation. youve said this a number of times to try to coopt scientific evidence but, as usual, Im dubious that you know what your saying.

Howa bout even one ferinstance?


Let's look at the recently discussed Tiktaalik.

Is there any evidence which precludes the possibility that Tiktaalik was created just as it was? None whatever. There is nothing that demands only an evolutionary interpretation and no other.

In fact, some of the species that are supposed to form the line of ancestry prior to, and the line of descendants after Tiktaalik are found at great distances from the site of the Tiktaalik find. We're talking 'halfway around the world' far away.

Inferring a daisy chain of events that circles the globe may make a great story, but most species are found in somewhat localized environments. That is, not global.

Very few species are so widespread as to be found all around the world.

Therefore, the geographic challenges of the commonly held evolutionary ancestry story are yet another factor that make it unlikely.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 08:48 pm
Chumly wrote:
Or looked at another way, any evidence can be interpreted anyway anyone wants, but the presenting of an interpretation in and of itself in no way suggests any level of plausibility or rationality or congruence with the facts.

Why?

Because in order for an interpretation to have plausibility or rationality, it naturally must fit the facts and it naturally must be plausible and rational. Christianity is neither plausible nor rational nor fits the facts of evolution.

Christianity is not even as plausible, rational and fitting of the facts as:
I blinked the entire universe into existence, in its totality, in one timeless moment.


Quite scientific how you 'prove' the validity of evolution by assuming it is a fact that all else must 'fit'. Neat circular argument that.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 08:52 pm
Is there any evidence which precludes the possibility that pigs can fly?

Prove to me I did not blink the entire universe into existence, in its totality, in one timeless moment.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 08:55 pm
Not gonna defend your circular argument, eh?
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 08:56 pm
What circular argument is that?
0 Replies
 
Pauligirl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 09:05 pm
real life wrote:
farmerman wrote:
real life, on Sunday, continued his oft repeated spiel that states
Quote:
Any evidence that can be interpreted as supporting evolution, can also be interpreted as supporting creation. There is no evidence that 'only evolution explains.'

Can you point to any such evidence that supports creation. youve said this a number of times to try to coopt scientific evidence but, as usual, Im dubious that you know what your saying.

Howa bout even one ferinstance?


Let's look at the recently discussed Tiktaalik.

Is there any evidence which precludes the possibility that Tiktaalik was created just as it was? None whatever. There is nothing that demands only an evolutionary interpretation and no other.

In fact, some of the species that are supposed to form the line of ancestry prior to, and the line of descendants after Tiktaalik are found at great distances from the site of the Tiktaalik find. We're talking 'halfway around the world' far away.

Inferring a daisy chain of events that circles the globe may make a great story, but most species are found in somewhat localized environments. That is, not global.

Very few species are so widespread as to be found all around the world.

Therefore, the geographic challenges of the commonly held evolutionary ancestry story are yet another factor that make it unlikely.


What did the world look like back when Tiktaalik was playing in the shallows? Halfway around the world now may have been a hop and a skip back then. http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~rcb7/nam.html
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 09:18 pm
The most hilarious thing about Real Life's "logic" is that even if evolution was completely wrong, that in no way gives any credence whatsoever to Creationism being in any way right.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 09:20 pm
Pauligirl wrote:
real life wrote:
farmerman wrote:
real life, on Sunday, continued his oft repeated spiel that states
Quote:
Any evidence that can be interpreted as supporting evolution, can also be interpreted as supporting creation. There is no evidence that 'only evolution explains.'

Can you point to any such evidence that supports creation. youve said this a number of times to try to coopt scientific evidence but, as usual, Im dubious that you know what your saying.

Howa bout even one ferinstance?


Let's look at the recently discussed Tiktaalik.

Is there any evidence which precludes the possibility that Tiktaalik was created just as it was? None whatever. There is nothing that demands only an evolutionary interpretation and no other.

In fact, some of the species that are supposed to form the line of ancestry prior to, and the line of descendants after Tiktaalik are found at great distances from the site of the Tiktaalik find. We're talking 'halfway around the world' far away.

Inferring a daisy chain of events that circles the globe may make a great story, but most species are found in somewhat localized environments. That is, not global.

Very few species are so widespread as to be found all around the world.

Therefore, the geographic challenges of the commonly held evolutionary ancestry story are yet another factor that make it unlikely.


What did the world look like back when Tiktaalik was playing in the shallows? Halfway around the world now may have been a hop and a skip back then. http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~rcb7/nam.html


It's possible. But you can't play that card time after time.

You can't invoke tectonics again and again to explain why the daisy chain of 'evolutionary evidence' skips all over the world.

So use your 'wild card' wisely.

Is there anything about Tiktaalik which demands only an evolutionary interpretation and no other?

Any thing at all which precludes the possibility that Tiktaalik was created just as it was?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 09:21 pm
Still not gonna defend your circular argument, Chumly?
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 09:24 pm
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 09:32 pm
Hey Real Life let's have some real fun:

Let's assume for the sake of argument that evolution is wrong!

In what way would this assumption give any credence whatsoever to Creationism being right as opposed to: "Chumly blinked the entire universe into existence, in its totality, in one timeless moment" ?
0 Replies
 
Pauligirl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 09:32 pm
real life wrote:


It's possible. But you can't play that card time after time.

You can't invoke tectonics again and again to explain why the daisy chain of 'evolutionary evidence' skips all over the world.

So use your 'wild card' wisely.

Is there anything about Tiktaalik which demands only an evolutionary interpretation and no other?

Any thing at all which precludes the possibility that Tiktaalik was created just as it was?


As I told you before, once you chant your mantra of "god did it", we are no longer discussing science, just your religious beliefs. And another good try at misdirection, because I have never invoked "tectonics again and again". If you don't like the evidence, well then, that's your problem.
P
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 09:38 pm
Pauligirl wrote:
real life wrote:


It's possible. But you can't play that card time after time.

You can't invoke tectonics again and again to explain why the daisy chain of 'evolutionary evidence' skips all over the world.

So use your 'wild card' wisely.

Is there anything about Tiktaalik which demands only an evolutionary interpretation and no other?

Any thing at all which precludes the possibility that Tiktaalik was created just as it was?


As I told you before, once you chant your mantra of "god did it", we are no longer discussing science, just your religious beliefs. And another good try at misdirection, because I have never invoked "tectonics again and again". If you don't like the evidence, well then, that's your problem.
P


What evidence, Pauligirl? All you've given me is 'maybe the world looked like this'.

And I concurred 'maybe'

But this is not evidence. It's speculation.
0 Replies
 
Pauligirl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 May, 2006 09:58 pm
real life wrote:


What evidence, Pauligirl? All you've given me is 'maybe the world looked like this'.

And I concurred 'maybe'

But this is not evidence. It's speculation.


here's your homework.
http://www.nps.gov/brca/geodetect/Plate%20Tectonics/theory.htm

Maybe it will help you understand this:
http://teach.fcps.net/trt20/projects/EKU/plate%20tectonics/drift%201.htm

Nite
p
0 Replies
 
jin kazama
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 May, 2006 06:19 am
Chumly wrote:
The most hilarious thing about Real Life's "logic" is that even if evolution was completely wrong, that in no way gives any credence whatsoever to Creationism being in any way right.


I completely agree with this... just because one theory might be disproven doesn't automatically make creationism right. Creationist fight against evolution because it is the most threatening theory to them now, but if something new popped up that didn't go along the lines of creationism, they'd fight that too Rolling Eyes I think the thing that people fear most is that there is no real purpose for us to existe... frankly that doesn't really bother me because I'll enjoy my time here on earth and when it's over it's over.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 May, 2006 06:43 am
rl
Quote:
Is there any evidence which precludes the possibility that Tiktaalik was created just as it was? None whatever. There is nothing that demands only an evolutionary interpretation and no other.
Is that how you "use" evidence? You merely atete that , because you see a fossil, it automatically is assumed to have been "Created".
So the inherent feATURES of Tiktalik, its location in the early Devonian, (Its tectonic position in the alluvial deposits), the zircon ages, the specific body features as compareed to Eustehenopteron or[/I]Icthyostega and at least 24 other localities worldwide.

I have to laugh when you told PAuligirl to "carefully use your evidence cards" because we use Tectonics too much. Are you shiiting me? That is about the worst piece of" logic "Ive seen on this thread to date. Tectonics is entirely surrounding this issue because, worldwide, due to tectonics, (presumably) there are 3 different lines of pre amphibian fish in the Old Red Sandstones, The Catskill Beds,Ellsmere, Antarctica, Central Asia,Gotland,Wildungen DE,Spitzbergen,Bertooth butte, and Campbellton Shales of Canada and these are developing in shallow streams and lakes in areas separated by opening seas.

If you claim that scientists use "Circumstantial" reasoning you are right. However, your post had no reasoning at all, at least none that I could that I could detect. I hope you dont think that such a n answer where you say that " nothing precludes tiktaliik from being Created' lets you off the hook.
Thats a conclusion,Its not any use of evidence.Such a statement,would never make the "CSI" cut.
0 Replies
 
 

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