RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 10:50 am
Doktor S wrote:
You're using yourself as an authority to support your own meanderings again rex, you gotta stop doing that. I'm getting dizzy from the spinning.

Guess what?
I too have studied the bible extensively! Not as the 'word of god', mind you, but as one of the oldest surviving historical fictions, as the work of literature that it is.(Although for considerably less time than timbers impressive 'several decades')
I know the bible better than any christian I've ever discussed religion with in person that's for sure. What makes you think you know anything I don't? My conclusions about the bible share nothing in common with yours. Having studied it extensively with no religious agenda, shouldn't I have come to the same 'correct' conclusions you have?
What of the umpteen zillion professed christians that constitute vanilla flavor christianity..are they ALL wrong?
Where are all the other people besides yourself, today and throughout history, that have also reached your 'correct' conclusions about what the bible really says/means? I certainly haven't read them. Perhaps they all took an oath of secrecy? Razz
Rex, delusions of grandeur may not be your only delusions, but they are certainly part of the set.


This is actually a very good post you have written...

Well I might say that you have finally met someone who knows the word better than you... Smile

I plan to show you much more "biblical" evidence to corroborate my position. This is how we have evolved from God...

Why does the world get it wrong and sprout their "vanilla flavored" (as you called it) religion?

Well it may have something to do with why the faith was lost in the first time...

The truth is the most likely to become counterfeited... It is attacked the most because it IS truth.

As we know from the presence of the gnostic writings that the true message was lost quite soon AFTER the first century church.

We do not need to go to extraneous writings to find this...

We find Paul going from city to city and spreading a "more perfect understanding".

When Paul's letters are analyzed one notices a pattern.

Romans is the magna charta of the Christian church.

Romans is the first "doctrinal" epistle of the church.

This book I have studied quite a bit. Romans lays out the very first Christian doctrine delivered to the first century church.

It details why and how we are saved and the legal standing we have as sons and daughters of God. (Highlight: Romans teaches the new birth.)

Yet this doctrine did not go over well...

In fact once the people got hold of it they began to practice erroneous behaviors. They twisted and contorted the words into extraneous practices.

They practiced these practices openly. Once news of these practices reached back to Paul then in response Paul wrote first and second Corinthians.

The purpose of Corinthians was to rid the church of the "practical" error (wrong practice) that had crept into the church due to the in-adherence to the revelation given in Romans. (Highlight: Corinthians teaches speaking in tongues.)
But it did not stop there.

After people openly practiced error for a long time they then formed doctrines and held them up as true prophecy.

(Much of this was because of old Jewish or gentile perceptions that they still clung onto.)

So then Paul wrote another letter. Galatians. [Highlight: Galatians frees the Church from the OT Law (as does Romans to a degree...)]

He wrote Galatians to directly address the "doctrinal" error (after people have practiced something for a long time the make a doctrine out of it... ahem..) that had crept into the church due to the in-adherence to revelation given in Romans and Corinthians..

Ephesians is the next and (Highlight) greatest "doctrinal" epistle to the church. (Ephesians teaches the "live love" walk of the spirit.)

Then we have Philippians which corrects practical error from wrong practice of Ephesians

Colossians corrects doctrinal error...

So you can see even in the first century the church had it's problems...

This is why the Bible is profitable for doctrine reproof and correction... (which is instruction in righteousness)

Then we get to Thessalonians which many scholars argue was written first... perhaps so.

Thessalonians is all about hope. It is also a "doctrinal" epistle. It deals with the subject of the return of Christ (the gathering day). It was reasoned that it was written first because people first need hope first...

Yet there is no practical or doctrinal reproof or correction because the return of christ will have no practical or doctrinal error.

It is not a function performed by the church but a function performed by Christ.

So why do people look at the Bible and see their own message rather than the message written? Perhaps they do not study it or they are just so abstract that it is such a long leap to perceive, change and understand "truth". Why do many scientists look at the world and not see God? (Because they are too abstract from where truth is.)

Some people just don't get it I guess...
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 11:01 am
The scientist who yields anything to theology, however slight, is yielding to ignorance and false pretenses, and as certainly as if he granted that a horse-hair put into a bottle of water will turn into a
snake.

H. L. Mencken
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 11:20 am
Lightwizard wrote:
The scientist who yields anything to theology, however slight, is yielding to ignorance and false pretenses, and as certainly as if he granted that a horse-hair put into a bottle of water will turn into a
snake.

H. L. Mencken


When you consider an atom can turn into practically anything it wants to I consider that last statement rather nieve...
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 11:38 am
Changing a horse-hair into a snake by placing it in water is a simple experiment. Why don't you try it and see if you are all powerful and can make atoms do what you want them to do? An "atom can turn into practically anything" is a nieve statement -- you know nothing about science and try to fake it. I again refer to David Niven's quip after the streaker ran across the stage at the Oscars. Although your shortcomings may or may not be there, you certainly are brave enough to display your shortcomings of knowledge on a public forum. I will give you that.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 11:38 am
Matthew 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 11:49 am
RexRed wrote:
Lightwizard wrote:
The scientist who yields anything to theology, however slight, is yielding to ignorance and false pretenses, and as certainly as if he granted that a horse-hair put into a bottle of water will turn into a
snake.

H. L. Mencken


When you consider an atom can turn into practically anything it wants to I consider that last statement rather nieve...

Spelling pedantry aside, the notion an atom might "want" anything, let alone take action to satisfy that want is so far beyond naive as to be ludicrous. Rex, you are the champion of ever-surpassing absurdities; I suspect there is no bottom to the well from which you draw them.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 11:52 am
Faith never has moved a mountain, heavy equipment, aided by high-energy explosives, makes regular practice of the excersize.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 11:53 am
timberlandko wrote:
As long as we're going all warm and melty over avatars here, as I've said before, Rex, your avatar is a fine bit of photography - I was impressed when you told me it was an original of yours; it reminds me very much of Joel Meyerowitz


Wow Joel has done some very nice work.

I like the porch post picture of looking out to sea especially...
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 12:01 pm
Meyerowitz is among my faves - In case you forgot, Here is where I first mentioned him to you. As I said then, I'd enjoy seeing a full-size high resolution version of the original from which you adapted your avatar. I like the composition and the subtle gradations of tonality.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 12:06 pm
Eorl wrote:
Not just Americans, no....., but in the world survey stats they really are an abnormality in the civilised world. Do you think it's the Irish background thing?

(Last Legends was my fav Attanasio, but "Sea of Glass" by Barry B. Longyear (also out of print) was my alltime top. I'll see if I can find DKMoran in my local second-hand.)


I'll look for _Sea of Glass_, Thanks.

_Singularity Sky_ was the last sci-fi I read, and it was very good. It had some very interesting ideas about "information overload". If the first chapter doesn't hook you, nothing will Smile
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 12:20 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Faith never has moved a mountain, heavy equipment, aided by high-energy explosives, makes regular practice of the excersize.


Well Christians do argue that creation is an act of faith so if God can create the universe by "the faith of God" then we could at some point tap into this "faith" and actually be able to move mountains.

Modern science does not rule out teleportation, like a molecular transporter.

The Pentagon and MIT are working on molecular transporter as we speak.

I guess some little girl who is a wiz kid figured out that physically teleporters or transporters are actually possible in the quantum model of the universe...

Well a teleporter would pick a quadrant of space and transport it to another quadrant in a certain way.

The human mind is a great tool for transporting things because it can foresee obstructions or obstacles and it can overlay objects seamlessly.

http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200202/msg00108.html

Jesus was right... We can move mountains by faith if we do not close our minds to the possibilities.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1888
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 12:31 pm
Why do I feel like I'm suddenly trapped in the movie "The Fly?"
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 12:35 pm
I submit, Rex, that by the available evidence, technology and manpower regularly move mountains, while faith, religious or otherwise, never has been observed either to do so or to have been in any way functionally - as opposed to conceptually - operative in the accomplishment of such action. I denote the distinction between functional and conceptual operativity as faith in technology permits the notion of moving a mountain to be contemplated and action thereto directed to be undertaken with reasonable expectation of success.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 12:47 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
Why do I feel like I'm suddenly trapped in the movie "The Fly?"
Because of the all powerful CRTC and Canada's oh-so-wise Official Languages Act we have taxpayer supported French voice overs for many movies and TV shows.

Inevitably, the original black and white was given this oh-so-necessary distinct cultural remedy, and a French voice over was liberally applied. Voila, a new high in low-down-ness!

The best part is at the end where the fly with the human head is stuck in the web, and the menacing massive beast of a spider is lumbering towards him.

The human headed fly squeaks out "Aidez moi, aidez moi". Perhaps some sort of symbiotic-cultural-French-Insectiod-evolution is afoot?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 01:02 pm
timberlandko wrote:
I submit, Rex, that by the available evidence, technology and manpower regularly move mountains, while faith, religious or otherwise, never has been observed either to do so or to have been in any way functionally - as opposed to conceptually - operative in the accomplishment of such action. I denote the distinction between functional and conceptual operativity as faith in technology permits the notion of moving a mountain to be contemplated and action thereto directed to be undertaken with reasonable expectation of success.


I agree but I attribute the reason why that this is not done is only an obstacle created by doubt and negative "believing" that is propounded into us at an early age by "science" in school.

We don't see this doubt as much in other societies.

It is not like there have not been miraculous events that are unexplainable but there are basic explanations as to why they were able to occur.

Because someone had faith.

That the human mind can send information into the spiritual or quantum (butterfly effect) realm. A whisper and this information can invoke "power" to "move mountains"...

I do not really doubt this but I have never tried it because I have frankly never needed to move a mountain in an urgent moment. I like them actually where God put them. Other mountains I have been working on moving but they are another story... Smile

I think a little faith might work quite fine on them...

This is something I wonder you probably all have heard. But I will give it to you any way.

The mustard seed is one of the very tiniest seeds yet it yields a tree that is so large from the right perspective the mustard seed tree can seem to tower over the mountains. Mustard seed trees grow rapidly they may have appeared to have "moved the mountains"...

Faith grows like that and moves mountains.

This tiny seed or faith is much like the quantum singularity or possibility...
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 01:02 pm
I hope I can hang in till this thread reaches 10000. Then we publish this in NATURE. Think of the accolades and the fame.
We will have to begin making the Lime Jello molds suitable for religious/secular celebrations.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 01:07 pm
rex
Quote:
The mustard seed is one of the very tiniest seeds yet it yields a tree that is so large from the right perspective the mustard seed tree can seem to tower over the mountains. Mustard seed trees grow rapidly they may have appeared to have "moved the mountains"...
. Total Bullshit. Mustard is of the brassica family. Its related to radishes and kale and brocolli and cabbages. Its an annual That is limited in its growth It doesnt grow to a large tree and the seeds are rather large(about as big as a radish seed). So another quote from the 2nd English version that "got it all screwed up from the Aramaic or Greek.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 01:12 pm
Farmerman, we'll all be invited to the "supper"...

I am partial to red jello...
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 01:17 pm
Red Jello with Oreos? Blood of Christ, body of Christ.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Apr, 2006 01:21 pm
farmerman wrote:
rex
Quote:
The mustard seed is one of the very tiniest seeds yet it yields a tree that is so large from the right perspective the mustard seed tree can seem to tower over the mountains. Mustard seed trees grow rapidly they may have appeared to have "moved the mountains"...
. Total Bullshit. Mustard is of the brassica family. Its related to radishes and kale and brocolli and cabbages. Its an annual That is limited in its growth It doesnt grow to a large tree and the seeds are rather large(about as big as a radish seed). So another quote from the 2nd English version that "got it all screwed up from the Aramaic or Greek.


If I am not mistaken Jesus is not talking about a mustard plant but a mustard tree...
0 Replies
 
 

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